Trying to break in to IT infrastructure field

[opethdisciple]

Apologise for yet ANOTHER of my threads discussing my job.

The problem is it keeps changing direction, based on what is developing at work and what I am hearing from requiters.

I've been working for 8 years in a 1/2 line support role. It's a Linux environment with windows and mac desktops.

I'm 34 now and want more money, I want to get my own place etc... which means I have to sort out the job NOW.

Most importantly I want to do something more interesting than dealing with other peoples useless crappy problems which are mostly of their own creation.

Not to waffle on too much, my plan was/is to study this year. My objectives are to study for the LPIC 1+2 (Linux course) and then ideally do the Cisco CCNA.

I want to move away from technical support and in to engineering, infrastructure or devops.

However the last recruiter I spoke to put the spanner in the works slightly by saying that book learning will not help me break in to this field.

I'm not sure if he realised these certs are more than just book learning. The LPIC you have to be able to install and configure the full spectrum of Linux related technologies (to a baseline level) and the CCNA is quite a hands on course.

Of course I realise, that study is always beneficial, but will I still struggle to move on from my current job even if I had the LPIC 1+2 and the CCNA on my cv?

I'm hoping there are companies out there which will take you on if you show the right aptitude but don't necessarily have the experience. A junior position for example.

The recruiter said the way to break into this field would be to take a job doing what I do now, but in a company with an infrastructure department, where I could eventually move in to.

There is also a microscopic chance that at my current job I can get involved with what I want to do. But my manager has said he wont let me do anything until I have passed the LPIC exams.

The other important point is there already is two other Linux engineers on the team and the other stuff I do in my day to day role will still be there even if I did pass the exams, meaning I really wouldn't have that much time to get stuck in.

So my question is, how on earth am I going to move on from technical support?

---

The other pesky issue I've realised is staying at current employer for 8 years has back fired. Some perfect looking jobs, say must have no more than 3 years experience.... which rules me out!

I've got the years but not the experience.

 

[celliott]

I was in your shoes, was with the same company 7 years as a 1st/2nd line Windows engineer and hated it. Studied in my own time, did some consultancy and completed RHCSA, RHCE, LFCS, LFCE certs. Made the best out of my current job, trained other engineers based on my knowledge, developed scripts/documentation etc for the company and after months of trying to find another job, I just handed in my notice. I ended up interviewing my replacements, 3 people were hired each earning £5k/year more than me, not happy! but kept my cool..

One Friday night I applied to a job on monster, 5 minutes later the agency called and after weeks of interviews I started a new job in October. Not only did I think I wasn't good enough for the job (experience and age, I'm 25), the company offered me a much larger salary than advertised without asking. I now work for one of the largest IT companies in the world as a Linux engineer, have opportunity to progress as far as I want in the company, and earn considerably more than all my friends and my parents. I've got a new car and aiming to buy my first house later this year.

The best bit of advice I can give is agencies suck, and I wouldn't speak to that recruiter again. Most of them don't have your best interests in mind, they only care about commission and getting you through the door. Also HR writes job adverts, not people doing the job. You don't need to be an expert in everything listed, just a few. Make sure you have some knowledge of most of the things they are looking for, and make sure you present your achievements at your current job, even if you are applying for a Linux job and its not Linux! Apply for jobs you WANT to do, not the ones you think you CAN do. If you don't have X number of years experience, it doesn't matter, that's just their ideal. They are more likely to hire someone with interest/passion for the role and some skills, than a more experienced person who wants to clock in/clock out.

You should also look at:

www.linuxacademy.com
www.cbtnuggets.com
www.bigdatauniversity.com

 

[anything I don't mind]

One option you can do is look at moving to a smaller company with only one or two IT staff. This should give you more scope at getting involved with technical issues. This might come with its own down sides. But what you want on your CV is proof that you have done projects and been involved in maintaining operations for the company. It is difficult to make the move. One option is to try the specialist route and try get certs and then go for jobs that only involve that but request the bottom end of the salary that they are looking for. Then move up over time.

 

[memyselfandi]

However the last recruiter I spoke to put the spanner in the works slightly by saying that book learning will not help me break in to this field.

I'm not sure if he realised these certs are more than just book learning. The LPIC you have to be able to install and configure the full spectrum of Linux related technologies (to a baseline level) and the CCNA is quite a hands on course.

...

There is also a microscopic chance that at my current job I can get involved with what I want to do. But my manager has said he wont let me do anything until I have passed the LPIC exams.

The other important point is there already is two other Linux engineers on the team and the other stuff I do in my day to day role will still be there even if I did pass the exams, meaning I really wouldn't have that much time to get stuck in.

Even with the practical elements in the certifications they are still "book learning" as you haven't used that learning in the real world.

If they will give you more responsibilities if you pass the LPIC cert then it may be worth doing that, just to get some experience, and then move on.

 

[opethdisciple]

Even with the practical elements in the certifications they are still "book learning" as you haven't used that learning in the real world.

If they will give you more responsibilities if you pass the LPIC cert then it may be worth doing that, just to get some experience, and then move on.

This is true. But I hope there are companies out there that don't mind taking on junior level admins who don't have much actual engineering exp.

I guess your right, that I have to get current employer to give me more responsibilities, but like I said they have two Linux admins already.

Not enough work to go round and they would not be happy sharing some of my work load as they are very happy and content in the knowledge that I do most of the user support and they do the more interesting stuff.

This is partly one of the reasons why I've been angry recently, as I noticed through out 2015, as they got pay raises, they started doing less and less of the user support leaving it all to me. Which in turn means I have less time to do more interesting stuff my self. Whilst I stayed on current wages and didn't get a raise.

I did bring this up with manager so he is aware.

---

My career from the beginning has been like this to be honest. At the beginning due to me having done a masters degree, I was either being told I was over qualified or under experienced. Eventually current employer took me on.

Seems like I'm going to be in the same place again just at a higher level.

---

But doing some certs can only help my cause and eventually someone somewhere will take me on?

 

[opethdisciple]

Just doing a bit of a google, it seems that with a CCNA I might be able to find a junior role, where I might get in with very little actual commercial experience.

Possibly?

On the Linux side, it seems that they want you to have a Red Hat cert ideally, but this is prohibitively expensive and hard.

What I like about the LPIC certs, is that when I look through the syllabus, it is EXACTLY what the other guys are doing in the office. So I know it's worth its salt.

The other thing with the LPIC, is that IBM are on board. They even provide study material. (IBM is a big thing in my company - the main frame is an IBM machine)

 

[oldbag]

Devops is where the cash is, automation like Chef/Puppet/Ansible, AWS, Docker, CI (Jenkins, etc).

Networking still earns a bit (people will always require networking also), certainly more than support and sysadmin's where people are ten-a-penny. Also, sysadmin these days doesn't demand much specific knowledge/experience and the OS's (Windows) are much more stable, thus they don't command good salaries any more.

 

[opethdisciple]

Devops is where the cash is, automation like Chef/Puppet/Ansible, AWS, Docker, CI (Jenkins, etc).

Networking still earns a bit (people will always require networking also), certainly more than support and sysadmin's where people are ten-a-penny. Also, sysadmin these days doesn't demand much specific knowledge/experience and the OS's (Windows) are much more stable, thus they don't command good salaries any more.

DevOps would be fantastic, but I also like the idea of network security etc.

I don't mind, just let me progress from technical support!!

 

[oldbag]

Check out http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk and have a play around with the roles and you can get an idea what is in demand.

 

[balanceballs]

I must have been very lucky. I went from a 1st/2nd line job (4 years) to another helpdesk position at a smaller company. I did that for a few months and then got offered a promotion to a developer job as they recognised my skills in the area. They're paying for a lot of training for me and I'm getting some extremely useful and valuable experience with all the new things I'm doing. It's great. I'm on a far lower salary than someone with more experience but it's a small price to pay for setting up a career.

All I did was excel at providing helpdesk support & showed a lot of interest in development, taking on anything that seemed relevant. My manager noticed my enthusiasm and gave me a chance!

 

[OspreyO]

...Not enough work to go round and they would not be happy sharing some of my work load as they are very happy and content in the knowledge that I do most of the user support and they do the more interesting stuff.

This is partly one of the reasons why I've been angry recently, as I noticed through out 2015, as they got pay raises, they started doing less and less of the user support leaving it all to me. Which in turn means I have less time to do more interesting stuff my self. Whilst I stayed on current wages and didn't get a raise.....

You're story is very similar to mine. Except mine was development and support. A long and sorry tale of woe. The short version is in the end (after many years) I basically told my boss I was taking time out to automate as much of the support as I could. Which reduced my support workload. Took about 3 months. I got away with it, because there a load of changes going on, and other stuff is now more important to worry about what I'm doing. I'll be be doing more DBA stuff from now, my scripts maintain the support I was doing.

Whereas before I would be the helpful guy. That attitude was dragging all support to me. Now I just don't get involved. I let issues bounce to other people. It seems to be working.

I must have been very lucky....All I did was excel at providing helpdesk support & showed a lot of interest in development, taking on anything that seemed relevant. My manager noticed my enthusiasm and gave me a chance!

You were lucky. In most places be good at the thing no one else wants to do, and they just give you more of it to do. Its quite common for people to be deliberately bad at something, like support, or mundane tasks, so that they'll be moved to something else. If you are good at it, you'll be left to fill the gap. You've been lucky enough to get a manager who has the sense to do the opposite.

...I guess your right, that I have to get current employer to give me more responsibilities, but like I said they have two Linux admins already. ....

If I were you I keep a low profile. Don't bother with your current manager and admins, they seem to want to keep the status quo. They want to keep you where you are. I would look for opportunities elsewhere, even within the company, and workup your skill set to match those. You like me have stayed in the one spot too long. Don't wait for it to happen, go do your own courses, and projects.

 

[memyselfandi]

One thing I would say is don't forget to look absolutely everywhere for job ads not just on the various IT job sites.

I went straight in on a junior 3rd line role, just what you are looking for, with no experience after seeing an ad in our local paper for a trainee role ... and this was with a large international company. Now I'm practically at the top of the tree for my technology for my company in the UK.

 

[glenimp617]

It MUST be where you live

Here, we really struggle to get any 2nd line vacancies filled, let alone third line. Took us 2 years and a high percentage going to an agency to land the last third line techie.

In my two last jobs, the people I worked with were borderline useless.

Sysadminds (good ones) are not ten a penny. Unless you class third line as checking backupexec jobs and creating AD users, rather than scoping high end infrastructure projects like DR over SANs and the like.

 

[opethdisciple]

Do you think I can test the waters by putting on my CV that I have passed the LPIC levels 1&2 and hold a current CCNA as a test to see if there is any interest in a CV with just certificates but little enterprise level Linux or network engineering experience?

I've looked online at the job sites and I can see junior Linux and CCNA roles. But they still say needs 2 years exp etc...

If this is the case, where do the people with no exp start?

 

[randomshenans]

I echo the devops shout. They're really valuable and in demand at the moment.

 

[jimjamuk]

Get on amazon - order some books and start reading whilst the enthusiasm is there. Make a study plan and get the certs done you want to do - or have any interest in.

 

[Ayahuasca]

With devops what kind of certificates and experience would employers be looking for? Surprisingly I've never heard of this and after a quick search it's something that interests me.

 

[opethdisciple]

With devops what kind of certificates and experience would employers be looking for? Surprisingly I've never heard of this and after a quick search it's something that interests me.

It's Linux. Extensive enterprise Linux experience should do.

My mate who was working with me for two years in a Linux admin role is now doing devops.

Earns big bucks (contracting).

 

[garyh]

It's Linux. Extensive enterprise Linux experience should do..

DevOps is most definitely not just Linux. It's an adaption of technology deployment, processes and organisation staff structures.

Go and read up on the topic... the Internet is your friend.

 

[opethdisciple]

DevOps is most definitely not just Linux. It's an adaption of technology deployment, processes and organisation staff structures.

Go and read up on the topic... the Internet is your friend.

I know this. But I was directly referring to Linux devops.

(Blinkered outlook as everyone I know is Linux)