TSMC winning again + Intel's 4K upscaling tech

g67575 · 20 Aug 2021 at 17:26

https://www.techpowerup.com/285751/...m-gpus-arc-alchemist-built-on-tsmc-n6-process

https://www.techpowerup.com/285742/...ing-tech-is-named-xess-doubles-4k-performance

I've gotta say, I'm feeling quite positive about Intel's GPUs, now that we know they will be 6nm. If nothing else, they should be quite power efficient...

I wonder if the production yields will basically be the same as TSMC's standard 7nm?

Protoype · 20 Aug 2021 at 17:39

Hopefully Intel will kick team green into touch.

Goosy · 20 Aug 2021 at 18:08

Protoype said:
Hopefully Intel will kick team green into touch.

They do have the power of fanboys too.

Joxeon · 20 Aug 2021 at 18:12

Protoype said:
Hopefully Intel will kick team green into touch.

And team red since it's not like AMD has been doing anyone any favours this generation.

It would be nice though if Intel delivers the sort of price performance that has been sorely lacking from the GPU market the last couple of years.

3070 performance for £400, 3060ti performance for £300 and 3060 performance for £200 is what's needed if Intel wants to take market share and the goodwill from fed up gamers.

Gerard · 20 Aug 2021 at 18:26

Joxeon said:
And team red since it's not like AMD has been doing anyone any favours this generation.

It would be nice though if Intel delivers the sort of price performance that has been sorely lacking from the GPU market the last couple of years.

3070 performance for £400, 3060ti performance for £300 and 3060 performance for £200 is what's needed if Intel wants to take market share and the goodwill from fed up gamers.

Intel delivering price\performance after their cpu shenanigans would be quite something. :eek:

Joxeon · 20 Aug 2021 at 18:27

Gerard said:
Intel delivering price\performance after their cpu shenanigans would be quite something.

They are moving into a new market so it makes sense for them to do this to gain some traction.

Would give them some mindshare as many are fed up with the monopoly that Nvidia and AMD have on the market and their ridiculous pricing.

slim01 · 20 Aug 2021 at 18:52

I think in the not too far future there will be a 4th team in the market too - China.

Scougar · 20 Aug 2021 at 19:10

slim01 said:
I think in the not too far future there will be a 4th team in the market too - China.

Monitor central..no thanks.

Protoype · 20 Aug 2021 at 19:12

slim01 said:
I think in the not too far future there will be a 4th team in the market too - China.

I think China does have a few in-house GPU and maybe even South Korea, but nothing is done globallly. For instance, the TaoBao market place has a lot of interesting stuff that never reaches the west.

D1craig · 20 Aug 2021 at 19:38

Gerard said:
Intel delivering price\performance after their cpu shenanigans would be quite something.

Yea I don't understand why people think this will be tue case. They don't even have the best cpus now and still charge is if they can't be touched.

Joxeon · 20 Aug 2021 at 19:43

D1craig said:
Yea I don't understand why people think this will be tue case. They don't even have the best cpus now and still charge is if they can't be touched.

They already have a huge stake in the CPU market though but They are just breaking into the GPU market so it would be unwise to price match Nvidia and AMD with their new and unproven products.

D1craig · 20 Aug 2021 at 19:52

Joxeon said:
They already have a huge stake in the CPU market though but They are just breaking into the GPU market so it would be unwise to price match Nvidia and AMD with their new and unproven products.

Maybe they will do what they did with cpus in laptops. Threaten sellers who use nvidia and AMD by removing any discounts.

Dalandius · 20 Aug 2021 at 19:57

Joxeon said:
They already have a huge stake in the CPU market though but They are just breaking into the GPU market so it would be unwise to price match Nvidia and AMD with their new and unproven products.

Or they are looking at Nvidia's Gross Margins and think "I'll have some of that" (NVIDIA's latest twelve months gross profit margin is 63.3%.)

Joxeon · 20 Aug 2021 at 20:28

Dalandius said:
Or they are looking at Nvidia's Gross Margins and think "I'll have some of that" (NVIDIA's latest twelve months gross profit margin is 63.3%.)

Would you buy a similar performing but new to market and unproven Intel GPU for the same price as what you can get a Nvidia model for?

KompuKare · 20 Aug 2021 at 20:52

https://www.tomshardware.com/featur...ith-its-arc-alchemist-and-xe-hpg-architecture

Guesstimate of around 400mm².
So around 100 fully good dies per wafer.
At $10k a wafer the die cost would be $100. Obviously more if TSMC charge Intel more than that for their gold dust wafers, but 100 good per wafer makes this very easy to calculate.

So we can have some idea of the absolute minimum prices Intel can set. The rest is down to them. Intel have thrown $billions away before to try to break into markets. Obviously they don't do that for the good of the consumer, but harm to the consumer would only happen if they totally distort the market and prices actually go up afterwards.

slim01 · 20 Aug 2021 at 22:03

Protoype said:
I think China does have a few in-house GPU and maybe even South Korea, but nothing is done globallly. For instance, the TaoBao market place has a lot of interesting stuff that never reaches the west.

Used to live there for a while... They have some very strange stuff in Shenzen market haha. Its only a matter of time until they can copy the production of wafers from Intel/amd in their own way

Dalandius · 21 Aug 2021 at 03:51

Joxeon said:
Would you buy a similar performing but new to market and unproven Intel GPU for the same price as what you can get a Nvidia model for?

Good point but would that be MSRP or the price that they are being sold for?

Joxeon · 21 Aug 2021 at 07:17

Dalandius said:
Good point but would that be MSRP or the price that they are being sold for?

Well I'd hope that Gpus are closer to msrp by the time these release in Q1 next year.

shamus21 · 21 Aug 2021 at 11:10

If only Intel could have got them on the shop shelfs before Christmas

Doogles · 21 Aug 2021 at 17:05

Joxeon said:
And team red since it's not like AMD has been doing anyone any favours this generation.

It would be nice though if Intel delivers the sort of price performance that has been sorely lacking from the GPU market the last couple of years.

3070 performance for £400, 3060ti performance for £300 and 3060 performance for £200 is what's needed if Intel wants to take market share and the goodwill from fed up gamers.

If Intel could make multi-GPU setups work that'd be amazing, at £400 for a 3070 you could buy 3 of them for the price of one 6900XT yet if optimized would be hitting twice the performance! I remember back in the day Crossfire being amazing when it worked the problem was for every game it worked well in you'd have another game where performance was worse with two cards or terrible microstutters, always thought nVidia/AMD worked together to kill mult-GPU setups off for gaming as it'd be cheaper to buy two midrange cards rather than one high end card.

The consumer needs more players in the market, even if it is just a lower-mid end option at least you're not held by the balls forced to buy green or red.