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Tuition fees

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by robfosters, 4 Aug 2013.

  1. Tunney

    Capodecina

    Joined: 11 Oct 2004

    Posts: 14,549

    Location: London

    I doubt anyone on minimum wage is a net tax contributor.

    There's a strong causal link between education and GDP. Everyone benefits from an educated population.
     
  2. G-MAN2004

    Caporegime

    Joined: 4 Jul 2004

    Posts: 30,330

    Doesn't bother me at all. It seems high, but a lot will probably never pay it all back...

    Now the one thing that does **** me off is the way they determine the maintenance loan figure. Heard of so many people who got through a year of uni with no job and no overdraft because they receive the highest loan, whereas people like me whose parents earn more don't even get enough to pay the £4400 rent!
     
  3. dave_a141

    Gangster

    Joined: 9 May 2005

    Posts: 121

    Location: Yorkshire

    It can also be a massive issue for post-graduates. As you can't get a fee loan for a second degree (for example if one wanted to do medicine after an undergraduate degree).

    Before, you had to pay £3k out of your own pocket per year which was tough, but manageable (I had a flatmate who did this). However paying £9k per year puts this out of most people's price range.
     
  4. robfosters

    Caporegime

    Joined: 1 Dec 2010

    Posts: 41,756

    Location: Welling, London

    Also, I understand the *****s and mortar universities fees rising, but the OU ballooned their yearly fees to nearly £6k as well. Didn't think distance learning would have come under the ruling.
     
  5. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: 29 Jul 2010

    Posts: 20,429

    Location: Lincs

    Then I wouldn't call the threshold of £21k a good or financially successful wage, being circa 4k less than the average wage I would call it, well...below average.
    Also quite attainable without needing to saddle yourself with that much debt.

    Thankfully I was in the generation where they paid us to go to a free University ;)

    Aye, and this Thatcher era policy, carried on by New Labour, of having this arbitrary figure of 50% of school leavers going to Uni, though seemingly a good idea to have an educated population, doesn't seem to have worked that well.

    The idea was to raise the educational standard, not lower the bar just to get everyone through and then end up with it being too costly for the state to run, bringing about the necessity of fees in the first place.
     
  6. Judgeneo

    Capodecina

    Joined: 15 May 2010

    Posts: 10,108

    Location: Out of Coventry

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-repay#tool


    Putting it my loan, and the salary I'll be starting on gives me 14 to 19 years to repay the lot. Tripple my tuition fees would add £18k to that debt, and the increase in interest rates means I would apparently have to have a salary of over £60k to be able to pay it off before its cancelled after 25 years.


    So its not hard to see why the protests happened.


    If you ignore the actual amount of debt and just look at the time it takes to pay it all back - considering you pay a fixed percentage of your salary this is a fairer way of determining costs. The new payment system adds 5 to 10 years to most peoples repayments, and far more than that to very high earners.
     
  7. King Damager

    Capodecina

    Joined: 16 Nov 2010

    Posts: 16,496

    Location: Swimming in a lake

    More money to owe. My current debt is 21k (having just come out of uni). About half of that is current tuition, the other half is the living cost loan... You feel like paying that off for me? :p When they go up, it'll be 9k*3 (27k), plus the half living cost I was talking about (call it 11k)... almost 40k of debt isn't the most favoured thing in the world. Add to that that the job market isn't great (although I think it's worse than people make out) right now for graduates, and you start to realise why.

    That said, overall the situation isn't that bad on an international scale if you ask me. The British education system is one of the better in the world, and ultimately, the cost is a lot less than a lot of other places.

    Because those bankers, lawyers, doctors engineers etc... pay the majority of taxes by a long way compared to those on minimum wage. The top 10% pay something stupid as a proportion of total tax (not that I can remember the actual figure right now). Therefore all those public entities the minimum wage earners love are predominantly funded by the bankers, lawyers, doctors engineers etc.... who probably paid their loan back relatively quickly (with interest - common misconception, you pay interest on your student loan at the rate of inflation)

    kd
     
  8. HangTime

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 25 Oct 2002

    Posts: 29,821

    Location: Hampshire

    The moaning is I believe fuelled at least in part by extravagant headline figures reeled off about how much debt could be racked up. I don't see the problem myself, either pay the fees if you think it is worth it, or don't go to uni if you don't. Loan is there for people who can't afford it.
     
  9. jon86

    Mobster

    Joined: 1 Sep 2003

    Posts: 3,158

    Location: US of A

    I read that mainland European universities are becoming more popular to UK students because they are quite a bit cheaper than UK universities and still very good, when at least compared to most non-redbrick universities. Most of the examples I read about teach in English and are very open to UK students.
     
  10. arknor

    Caporegime

    Joined: 22 Nov 2005

    Posts: 40,732

    Location: Newcastle/Zurich

    and the top 10% would be helpless if the other 90% disappeared over night
     
  11. RomanNose

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 20 Aug 2010

    Posts: 8,201

    Yeah, I was wrong.
    The amount available for maintenance loan is far too small though. My housing is just over £4000 a year. The only opportunity I have for work is in the summer, and if I was to work full time at minimum wage. I would still would not have enough to afford to live on £50 a week ( excluding rent).
     
  12. Nitefly

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 24 Sep 2005

    Posts: 34,158

    That's all well and good, but that reasoning still applied when fees were 9x cheaper.

    It's amazing that fees are now 9x what I paid.
     
  13. arknor

    Caporegime

    Joined: 22 Nov 2005

    Posts: 40,732

    Location: Newcastle/Zurich

    It's amazing loads of newcastles library's closed and a swimming pool.

    Times change governments would rather waste money fighting wars where we don't belong are bunging money at india etc who can't feed it's people but can have a space program.

    oh wait sorry we wouldn't get any business if we didn't give corrupt ******* back handers disguised as aid
     
  14. dowie

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 29 Jan 2008

    Posts: 54,113

    Someone on a minimum wage doesn't pay for anyone else... in fact they don't pay enough in tax to cover their own share if govt spending were divided equally...
     
  15. arknor

    Caporegime

    Joined: 22 Nov 2005

    Posts: 40,732

    Location: Newcastle/Zurich

    a lot of people above minimum wage don't either though which shows the 10% have to much
     
  16. dowie

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 29 Jan 2008

    Posts: 54,113

    why does it show that and how do you define 'too much'?
     
  17. Zefan

    Don

    Joined: 15 Jan 2006

    Posts: 31,342

    Location: Tosche Station

    It was pretty silly to protest really in my opinion. To me, anything that makes people think twice about going to uni is a good thing. The Labour idea of "everyone should be able to go to university" somehow ended up being "Everyone should go to university", which helped no one.
     
  18. lukeharvest

    Hitman

    Joined: 3 Dec 2006

    Posts: 730

    Location: Oxford

    I'm probably one of the few university students who actually agrees with the new tuition fees (although perhaps this is because I'm still on the old £3,xxx fees?). Too many people going to university, and certainly too many people are going to university just because "it's another 3/4 years of something to do" - which is a ridiculous mentality if you ask me. From what I've seen, most decent universities are heavily subsidising tuition fees for those from less privileged backgrounds, although it's not really students from less privileged backgrounds who are screwed over when it comes to student finance, it's generally those from middle class families.
     
  19. arknor

    Caporegime

    Joined: 22 Nov 2005

    Posts: 40,732

    Location: Newcastle/Zurich

    you know working tax credits right? and housing benefit? both can be paid to working people even people above minimum wage ;)
    go google how much money the government spends on benefits for working people ;)

    wages are below what they should be but instead of companies paying real wages they pay the 10% stupid money and pay the peons below what is needed to survive so the government has to step in like they do

    Surely this suggests something is very very wrong?
     
  20. moody

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 17 Nov 2005

    Posts: 1,490

    HE may just be the start. I wonder at what point will all College education be loan based. From this month anyone aged 24 or over wanting to do a Level 3 qualification at a college will now have to take a loan out to do so. The amount the government allocates to this trebles in 14/15 suggesting that either lower levels will fall into this or the age will be lowered further.