TV links shut down and owner arrested

It's also the fact that a lot BBC stuff isn't purely owned by the BBC - the writers, directors and actors all get additional payments when it's shown again officially regardless of the channel it's on (the BBC may only have the "rights" to show it for a few months before other channels can buy additional rights).
exactly. They don't have to provide Iplayer, but they are. It's a good little tool, just wish All 5 channels had it and they had it for all there programs, even if it is only for a few days.

I'm sure eventually bbc will open up some of there back catalogues, which don't make them any money.
 
exactly. They don't have to provide Iplayer, but they are. It's a good little tool, just wish All 5 channels had it and they had it for all there programs, even if it is only for a few days.

I'm sure eventually bbc will open up some of there back catalogues, which don't make them any money.

No, they don't *have* to provide the iPlayer, but they *want* to. Why?

Because the BBC will get even more money from content creators when they distribute their stuff again and again, and further justify itself.

The fact is, that we have *already* paid for all of the content shown on the BBC for the last god knows how many years (although it could be justified I have no rights to anything this year as I have no TV/TV-licence). However, you *won't* be able to get access to anything, and the BBC will simply act as a middle man.

1) The TV setup in this country is deliberately confusing. Is the BBC a content creator, distributor, tv nanny? Does it answer to a higher level ie make documentaries that need to be made or pander to the masses?
2) Does TV licencing pay for distribution, content or both?
3) Why do I have no rights despite paying thousands of pounds into pots for years on end, and *still* end up paying again and again for programs I have already seen to watch them on DVD?

There are parts of the BBC that I respect - their high quality programs. But nothing else. If they seperated the company into BBC Content and then ditched the rest, I'd be happy. Stop trying to run my life around what is on TV tonight that I might like to watch (Dragon's Den at some mysteriously arbitrary time) and make it available at *my* convenience.

The problem is that it is *not* in their interests to open it up to us, and that is why they fail, the whole system fails.
 

The bbc does not own rights ofr many of it's programs it buys in. The tv license is like a subscription, you have no tv license and so have no rights to anything.

A tv license does not mean you can watch, whatever the bbc has broadcasted. It simply means you can watch what the bbc aires at that time. Technically even recording a tv show is illegal.

The bbc is both a distributor, creator and buyer.
 
The bbc does not own rights ofr many of it's programs it buys in. The tv license is like a subscription, you have no tv license and so have no rights to anything.

You have no rights. How is this a good thing? You paid money and have nothing to show for it.

A tv license does not mean you can watch, whatever the bbc has broadcasted. It simply means you can watch what the bbc aires at that time. Technically even recording a tv show is illegal.

Well, that is unacceptable. Imagine if you could only listen to a song at the specific time that it was broadcast on the specified radio station at the time it was broadcast. The music industry would have died years ago. However, we have CD distribution (similar to DVD distribution) and online legal downloads (that seems to have no video equivalent). The only difference is, that where I haven't spent thousands of pounds for the right to listen to the radio, I *have* to watch television.

The bbc is both a distributor, creator and buyer.

Well, theoretically everything that the BBC buys belongs in the public domain as the BBC is owned and paid for by the general public - and not by choice but by law. Everything else is another matter, and we need a seperate broker for the content creators / consumers to engage.

The BBC is *not* that broker. The BBC simply confuses everything.
 
You have no rights. How is this a good thing? You paid money and have nothing to show for it.

because thats what you pay for. If you want to up the tv license tos everal grand a year, i'm sure you could have rights.


Well, that is unacceptable. Imagine if you could only listen to a song at the specific time that it was broadcast on the specified radio station at the time it was broadcast. The music industry would have died years ago. However, we have CD distribution (similar to DVD distribution) and online legal downloads (that seems to have no video equivalent). The only difference is, that where I haven't spent thousands of pounds for the right to listen to the radio, I *have* to watch television.

We'll no, your not aloud to record radio either, you have to go and buy the cd, in tv you buy the dvd. Music was online first due to internet speeds. Tv is coming to internet slowly as speeds increase.



Well, theoretically everything that the BBC buys belongs in the public domain as the BBC is owned and paid for by the general public - and not by choice but by law. Everything else is another matter, and we need a separate broker for the content creators / consumers to engage.

The BBC is *not* that broker. The BBC simply confuses everything.


No because they buy the right to show it once or whatever. not the rights to the program itself, so again they don't own it.
 
because thats what you pay for. If you want to up the tv license tos everal grand a year, i'm sure you could have rights.

For several grand a year, I would expect to have full DVD copies in top quality of each and every single program. There aren't *that* many programs being broadcast. Oh, and perhaps I'd have some choice to not pay for crap like "lets have a look in my loft and find something to sell".

We'll no, your not aloud to record radio either, you have to go and buy the cd, in tv you buy the dvd. Music was online first due to internet speeds. Tv is coming to internet slowly as speeds increase.

It doesn't matter though, because I have *never* paid a penny to listen to radio. Even NOW I don't have a licence to listen to radio, but I can listen to all sorts of songs - but I have no control, no choice whatsoever. If I was paying for a radio service, I'd be damn sure that I had the rights to listen to it when it was convenient to me.

However, I *have* paid over the years for TV licences year in year out, and have nothing. And what did my TV licence pay for? Perhaps 10-15 decent documentaries, episodes of Office / League of Gentlemen that I bought on DVD anyway at full price, and about 800 hours of complete tripe when I am at work. Also, many of my favourite shows got move / cancelled because of political crap, competition between channels etc. I *do not care* about who wins the war of ratings, I only want to see the programs I enjoy, when it is convenient to *me*, the consumer. Any other way of watching television is to bow your head and allow television to dictate your life, rather than the other way around.

No because they buy the right to show it once or whatever. not the rights to the program itself, so again they don't own it.

And as I said, those external programs are a seperate matter for brokerage. However, the material owned by the BBC is owned by the british general public, and the main restrictions on downloading it as "copyright of the BBC" are not defendable, because we as the general public paid for those programs to be produced.

But... now I stop one year without television licence and simply buy the few programs I like on DVD second hand. I don't have any rights? Sounds pretty daft to me.

This business model will FAIL. BBC will be remodelled as BBC Content or something and the "big switchover to digital" will become worthless after the big switchover from streamed content to on-demand content completes.
 
Just to clarify something that is often wrongly quoted, the recording of television programmes for watching at a later date is not illegal provided they are recorded for personal usage only. Section 70 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act explicitly permits so-called "time shifting", i.e. the recording of broadcasts for use at a later time.
 
Just to clarify something that is often wrongly quoted, the recording of television programmes for watching at a later date is not illegal provided they are recorded for personal usage only. Section 70 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act explicitly permits so-called "time shifting", i.e. the recording of broadcasts for use at a later time.

I guess a good question would be, if you missed a program, are you allowed to ask your neighbour who recorded it for you to show it to you.

Its kinda retarded if you can't. Its the same damn recording.
 
I just download them because i cba to walk downstairs to watch stuff on TV... I guess a lot of other people do that too... oh, and also I don't want to arrange my schedule around watching the new episode of X and Y (dont have sky plus or Tivo or whatever)

From the guy who once claimed he was the prime example of someone who should be receiving benefits.
 
I guess a good question would be, if you missed a program, are you allowed to ask your neighbour who recorded it for you to show it to you.

Its kinda retarded if you can't. Its the same damn recording.

iirc that is also illegal, i also think again iirc that it's illegal to keep a TV recording for longer than 2 weeks, at that time the tape has to be destroyed, erased, deleted, re-recorded over whatever, we have some really ghey laws :(
 
From a purely selfish perspective, I'm disappointed it's gone. It was a pretty good source of old TV programme episodes.

As others have quite rightly pointed out, it was completely illegal, therefore the actions the authorities have taken are completely justified.
 
According to today's Reg, it transpires that the man in question was arrested under section 92 of the Trade Mark Act for supplying property with a registered trademark.

Not for offences related to copyright infringement.

And, in fact, he hasn't even been charged with anything as of yet.

Make of that what you will.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/23/tv_links_trademark_law/
 
There are a lot of people posting here claiming their opinion as fact. This post started off as a reply to a specific post, but soon got 'a bit long' so decided to make it a general reply so that people could understand what, exactly, the law in this area is. I'd add now that I'm not a lawyer - I've a law degree and I'm currently studying for an IP law masters. Two of my current subjects cover this area (Intellectual Property Law and Computer Law), but I've also looked at this area in other ways throughout my degree. I don't claim to know everything on this area, but I'll only post what I can backup with statute and cases.

Existence of copyright
The first question that needs to be asked is whether there's any copyright in any of the items we're talking about. I think, here, it's clear that there's copyright in the audio-visual content under s 1(B) CDPA 1988. There is also possible copyright under s1(A), but 1(B) is good enough and there will lie the thrust of any infringement case. It is also clear that the links themselves are incapable of holding any copyright (under Exxon Corporation v Exxon Insurance (1982)) and, even if they did, nobody cares about infringement there - and copyright would be held by the person who created the links themselves rather than FACT.

As part of a defense of his actions, it could be claimed that copyright does not exist in some of the televisual works under the dicta of Hyde Park Residences Ltd v Yelland (2000). The case states that enforcement of copyright may be contrary to both the public interest and the right to freedom of expression (since HRA) in some cases - and thus effectively invalidates copyright in those instances. The instances mostly seem to be where the content is 'immoral, scandalous' or where the public have a right to know - such as if the prime minister went on tv and declared war on Iraq - there'd probably be no copyright on that footage. This is thus a narrow defense, but it could both use a lot of time up - so much that the CPS might just get fed up and give up - and would at least take the scale of the infringement (if any was found) down a little.

Infringement
We must now look to see if there has been any infringement.

Primary infringement
The first type of infringement to look at is primary infringement. This comes in a couple of types:
  • Copying s(17(2))
  • Making adaptations
  • Issuing copies to the public s18(2)

These are all quite literal in their meaning. Copying is defined as 'reproducing the work in a material form'. Clearly there has been no reproduction of work by tvlinks. Making adaptations means different things depending on whether we're talking about software, databases or anything else. Here we can leave software and databases out of this and look merely at the definition for everything else - that is taking from the original copyrighted work and creating from it a work that still contains a substantial amount of the original. Here this is clearly not the case.

So that leaves us with issuing copies to the public. This is defined, under s18(2(a)) as 'putting into circulation in the EEA copies not previously put into circulation in the EEA by or with the consent of the copyright owner'. Now, logically, tvlinks put nothing into circulation - the copies were already in circulation through the sites that contained the actual links. If there is already circulation through that source then to link to that source, or otherwise give further people access to that source is not 'putting into circulation' and, as such there is no infringement here. We have now reached the end of possible primary infringements without finding any infringements.

Secondary infringement
The next thing to look at is secondary infringements. Secondary infringements are different from primary infringements in that they require knowledge of infringement on behalf of the infringer. If tvlinks were never told that they were infringing, before being shut-down, there is thus a case that there has been no infringement. In this particular instance it may be possible to argue that knowledge was obvious, but certainly it is going against normal procedure for the copyright holder not to inform the infringer. Bearing that in mind, lets look at the possible types of secondary infringement:

  • Dealing in infringing copies (s22)
  • Providing articles for making infringing copies (s24)
  • Facilitating infringement by transmission (s24(2))
  • Circumvention of protection measures (s296 (as amended))

The list doesn't match up exactly with the act, but lists them more as substantive infringements.

Section 22 of CDPA defines dealing in infringing copies as 'imports into the UK, otherwise than for his own private and domestic use, an article which is, and which he knows or has reason to believe is, an infringing copy of the work'. It is true that when you download from one server to another, if the first server is based outside the UK then you are importing. Tvlinks, however, did not itself download any of the files - it merely linked to links to them. As such there has been no importation by tvlinks and thus no infringement under this ground.

Providing articles for making infringing copies is defined in s24(1) and is in relation to 'an article specifically designed or adapted for making copies of that work'. This is in reference to programs like DVDShrink and the likes. A link is incapable of being an 'article' and, as such there is no infringement under this ground.

Facilitating infringement by transmission is defined under s24(2) as 'transmit(ing) the work by means of a telephone system...knowing or having reason to believe that infringing copies of the work will be made by means of the reception of the transmission'. The only thing that tv-links was transmitting was links. As previous mentioned, the links are not subject to copyright control and, as such, there is no infringement upon this ground.

Circumvention of protection measures is defined under s296 CPDA and were amended by the Information Society Directive. It's a long section which is full of gray areas (with, IMHO, conflicting case law following it); though luckily there is no way this covers what tv-links were doing - it deals with removal of DRM.

Conclusion
So, we're finished with all the possible primary and secondary infringements and found nothing. Is it as simple as that? Unfortunately no. As the guy's been arrested we know at least one thing - whatever they think he's done wrong, they think it's a criminal offense. Now the only acts capable of criminal liability are:
  • Sale or hire
  • importation (other than for private use)
  • owning in the course of a business (with the intention to commit infringement)
  • exhibits in public in the course of a business
  • distributes in the course of a business
  • distributing, not as a business, but to such an extent as to be prejudicial to the copyright owner
  • performance with knowledge that doing so is infringing
  • makes an item specifically designed for the purpose of infringement

Now this list sounds similar to a mix of the two lists we've looked at before and indeed there is some overlap. There are two key differences though, all require mens rea (you meant to do whatever it is you're doing), knowledge that what you're doing is infringing and, as it is criminal law, these must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Instead of going through the whole list I'll jump straight to 'distributing, not as a business, but to such an extent as to be prejudicial to the copyright owner.' (my wording). Linking to copyright infringement could clearly be seen as distributing - by linking you are giving access to that material. In this specific case though, there are a couple of things that we need to deal with:
  1. knowledge
    The question here is whether he had knowledge not only that said files were accessible from his website, but also that there was infringement. I think, in this case, it would be clear that he did because it would be obvious even to the casual observer. It's worth noting though that usually this must consist of the copyright owner informing the host that said files are infringing and then requesting there removal. I'm sure in this case that probably happened though.​
  2. remoteness
    For there to be a crime there has to be a causality link. For example if I shot you in the head, clearly I'm the cause of your death. If, however, I shot you in the hand and, on the way to hospital, the ambulance was in an accident, in which you received substantial injuries, only to get to hospital an hour later where you received negligent care resulting in your death - then the cause of death cannot properly be seen to be me shooting you in the hand (the chain of causality has been broken). That's an extreme example. Here we have a person linking only to a link to a link which allows the download. IMHO that's too remote for there to be any criminal liability - this would probably be mootable in some sort of way though.​

I discussed this last point with my Copyright lecturer, who believes that he would have been done for 'assisting' in the offence. What, exactly he meant by this I didn't have time to find out (I asked quickly during a break) so there may be conspiracy or incitement - I'll do some more research and then update this section. I'm also planning on checking to see if there's anything in Blackstones later on so will update with that. Either way my lecturer said that it's a bit of a gray area at the moment because there haven't really been any cases on it - so I think we're looking at a test case here.

The Counter Claim
If I was the operator of tv-links, at the moment I'd be thinking about bringing a claim under s253 CDPA. This provides a remedy for groundless threats of infringement of copyright. I'd suggest this for two reasons. Firstly, it'd get the issue of whether the site was doing right or wrong finally solved and thus there would be no chance of repeated action being taken against the site. Secondly, if he wins, it'll be embarrassing for FACT and create a free mandate for other sites, like his, to be created within the UK. Thirdly, he'd get some cash out of it.


LINKS
Gowers Report (quite insightful in this area, but also very long and not cutting edge anymore)
Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (with, I think, all the amendments)
Exxon and Hyde Park Residences are both available on westlaw and lexisnexis (just search for the case name)
M Spence & T Endacott, "Vagueness in the scope of copyright" [2005] LQR 657 (available on lexisnexis)
R Burrell & A Coleman, Copryight Exceptions: the Digital Impact (CUP, 2005) (westlaw)

Hope that clears stuff up for some people. Oh, and congrats for reading this far. :D

EDIT: In response to the 'reg article, I'm pretty surprised. To be honest I just don't see any charges sticking if they continue down that route - it's nonsensical! This would require trademark law to take a leap towards copyright law - something that the courts have continuously refused to do. I fully expect the charge to change to one based on copyright before any case actually starts.
 
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