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UK Government Performance 2019-2024

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Dirk Diggler, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. thenewoc

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 5,925

    Location: West Sussex, England

    That's something for them to decide if they believe that market is worth their while. This is no different than at present when a company could choose to produce something to a different standard for a foreign market or it maybe packaged differently, essentially the same product but with different labeling or sizing. The red tape is already there if you want to trade to a broader set of countries but it's optional, some companies only focus on their domestic market. What we need is to unsuckle ourselves from cheap imports if we want a more diverse and stronger economy. If we don't stop the cheap imports then a company here isn't going to make something that it would otherwise be undercut on.
     
  2. wesimmo

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 19, 2012

    Posts: 4,289

    And, even better, we get no say in the standards we will HAVE to produce goods to if we want to export anything.
     
  3. cheesyboy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 7, 2012

    Posts: 12,835

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Don't think we can any more. Isn't that what Brexit was all about?
     
  4. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 4,385

    I'm starting to think you don't know what you want, as Devilman says how is multiple differing standards going to reduce red-tape and unnecessary expenditure, you've said having a more competitive set of taxation and less barriers to growth through less red tape but then you say you want more red tape by being free to legislate for pretty much any amount of divergence from our biggest single trading partner, you've said the economic consequences of lock down is that it's reduced demand but you think cutting business expenses will allow us to sell more despite there being fewer people to sell things too, you seem to hold multiple incongruent beliefs, it's most odd.
     
  5. wesimmo

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 19, 2012

    Posts: 4,289

    That's what the EU helped to do. Equalise standards as far as possible across members to prevent undercutting with poor standards and labour laws.
     
  6. wesimmo

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 19, 2012

    Posts: 4,289

    It's hard to articulate your point when you can't just come out with "no brown people, thanks."
     
  7. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 17,488

    Location: Lincs

    Yea, it's almost like the whole point of the Single Market and Customs Union was to reduce red tape, cut business costs and make trade easier between countries...
     
  8. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 35,510

    Location: Co Durham

    So you prefer us become a low wage tax haven then? And what limits on immigration? There is no point putting limits on if those limits are 500k per annum. We have been able to limit immigration for years and we have just never applied the rules or even tried to reduce the numbers coming in. reason being is the Govt and business want them. Until that changes you arent going to get what you desire.
     
  9. thenewoc

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 5,925

    Location: West Sussex, England

    There's multiple types of red tape. There's a difference for instance to having red tape that produces a barrier to entry and there's also the sort like extra export paperwork. The former I believe will be worked on through budget, policy announcements and the finer detail of new legislation. The latter is something businesses will overcome with new technology, updated software to fill any new forms automatically. No one is likely selling more at the moment and for us to do so will involve trade deals which are still being worked on. It's not for me to have a static answer to something that is being evolved, business itself is also having to evolve to a changing world. Where there is a demand there will be an opportunity for those able to, to fill that requirement and thus generate jobs. Some of that demand in my opinion will come from having to apply tariffs to some imports to open up enough margin to make it worth someones time to produce a competing product locally.
     
  10. thenewoc

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 5,925

    Location: West Sussex, England

    Between countries in the EU but it didn't make less red tape to trade with those outside the EU. The choice post Brexit is being able to trade further afield than the EU on terms that the EU has nothing to do with. Hence the fact the EU doesn't want us to have this freedom to be more competitive than itself.
     
  11. thenewoc

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 5,925

    Location: West Sussex, England

    Only in an emergency were we able to opt out of FoM, David Cameron already tried that and was blocked by the EU, hence we ended up with the outcome of the referendum.
     
  12. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 17,488

    Location: Lincs

    Yea, but the deals we negotiated when part of the EU are going to be better than the ones we negotiate on our own

    Small fish get worse deals than big fish, especially when the small fish has leapt out of the bowl and is desperate to get back in one
     
  13. thenewoc

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 5,925

    Location: West Sussex, England

    It's not just a limit on numbers that's required. It's a points based system that's required to end an uncontrolled number of unskilled workers or economic migrants (some of which I'm sure are just moving here and either work illegally off book, claim benefits or increase the numbers of homeless). We won't be needing EU unskilled workers for quite some time since our own unemployment figures have gone through and will continue to go through the roof as the CV-19 effects on the economy work their way through.
     
  14. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 4,385

    So you want to cut some red tape but not other red tape, you want to increase demand by reducing supply, and you want to create new jobs by making some things more expensive and some things cheaper....you know what i think, i think i was right when i said you don't seem to know what you want.
     
  15. Devilman

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 9, 2004

    Posts: 586

    So when are you signing up for one of these unskilled jobs that you seem to think people will be jumping at the opportunity to do?

    There is a reason why we have mainly imported labour for picking our veg etc..


    Can you back this up with proof, or is it just more "feels" ?
     
  16. wesimmo

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 19, 2012

    Posts: 4,289

    So now you're saying it will increase red tape but that's ok because technology?
     
  17. thenewoc

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 5,925

    Location: West Sussex, England

    Not necessarily as an other country will have certain exports that don't suit some members of the EU and yet we can negotiate terms that suit our financial services for instance better than with the EU block that was suited more toward products.
     
  18. Freakbro

    Capodecina

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    Location: Lincs

    I would say yes necessarily, but even if we, for the sake of argument, accept your premise of not necessarily, it certainly is in this specific case. Hell, even Japan are squeezing us because they know we're in a weak position and are going for better terms for themselves than the current deal we have with them via the EU.

    The USA have us over a barrel as they definitely know we need them more than they need us, and even then, the projected benefit of the US trade deal is woefully pathetic.
     
  19. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 4,385

    So getting away from this Schrodinger Brexit what's supporters of Brexit thoughts on potentially opening our door to residence of HK, wasn't Brexit meant to be about reducing immigration and now here we are with Johnson going all mini Windrush and inviting the entire population of HK to come and live here.
     
  20. thenewoc

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 5,925

    Location: West Sussex, England

    If we weren't allowing businesses to favour an EU workforce on cheaper wages than local alternatives then people would do those jobs because they'd be payed at a higher rate but individuals currently won't take them because the EU workers are undercutting what a UK employee needs to live on. The problem here is supermarkets not paying the right amount for produce so that the producer can pay a more appropriate salary.

    Of course not because anyone in the EU was free to come here so we don't have those records as a country, which is the problem with having an open border. This is part of the problem anyone gaining EU citizenship wouldn't have done so as some refugee to then live in Poland, Croatia, Romania etc, they'd have made a bee line here or we'd be at least one of the top destinations on their list. Not only will we of had plenty of unskilled workers flooding our labor market but also plenty from Iraq, Iran, Syria etc who don't have our cultural upbringing, respect for law and order or in some cases a grasp of English, written or oral so some are unemployable. Some of these people you have no idea of what there past convictions are if indeed they've been caught and prosecuted.