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UK Government Performance 2019-2024

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Dirk Diggler, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. Hagar

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 7,687

    Location: Prev. Nkata Cheshire

    There is no power for the judiciary to strike down primary legislation in the UK. Judges have wide interpretive powers and in case of doubt are likely to refer back to parliament with 'did you mean this?' The government then have to respond or clarify?

    They can rule against the government in a judicial review on legal grounds only, this is not striking down legislation though. The government must appeal or make suitable changes to comply with a ruling.

    Example; civil partnerships, the law was described as incompatible where opposite sex partnerships were considered, this did not mean that the law was struck down or no longer working. It required the government to amend the law.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  2. mid_gen

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 20, 2004

    Posts: 8,997

    Does anyone know what 'levelling up' means yet?

    Presumably as this is the main goal for this government, they have some kind of success criteria to measure performance against.

    How will we know when the NHS has been 'levelled up'?
     
  3. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 33,800

    Location: Co Durham

    Its mana and hit points will increase. It also might gain a new skill
     
  4. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 14,727

    Location: Hertfordshire

    :D
     
  5. Dirk Diggler

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 6, 2013

    Posts: 13,175

  6. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 17,930

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    Thank you for the correction. I was being sloppy.
     
  7. garnett

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 5,773

    It means zero metrics by which to judge its success or failure - and so zero accountability for its utterers.

    Probably just as well, because, by any measure, this new cabinet seems.... Weak.

    Here's more on the new AG...

     
  8. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,160

    It's times like these, that hopefully an actual lawyer (Starmer) wins the Labour leadership so they can provide a critical discussion about what is likely to be a complete destruction of the justice system in this country for personal gain.
     
  9. KiNgPiN83

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 16, 2003

    Posts: 3,875

    Location: Chatham

    That was quite an interesting read. What I took from it was that Dominic Cummings is a very clever guy and will rightly or wrongly, for better or worse do whatever needs to do to get his vision into reality. (See bits about brexit campaign spending, targeted FB ads, the £350 million spending, removing staff etc) But at the same time isn’t afraid to tell someone to shove it and leave if they don’t do what he wants. (He left as Cameron’s adviser when Cameron chose not to ditch GCSE’s which Cummings wanted.)

    What it also reinforced to me is that Boris is in fact a bumbling idiot and it’s not an act, it’s just him... It sounds like he’s hoping Cummings and his plans will make him some sort of legend of a Prime Minister. However it sounds like if Cummings doesn’t like something or gets what he wants he wont be afraid to leave Boris to it.

    I guess it’s the perfect situation for Cummings as if it goes to **** Boris takes the rap and if it turns out great he’ll know it was all him anyway and won’t be bothered about Boris taking the credit.
     
  10. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,800

    A dangerous man. He is inflating Johnson ego to get the power it takes to put his vision into action. Except he is not elected by anyone. He is the puppet master as long as he keeps on telling Johnson how wonderful he is.
     
  11. KiNgPiN83

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 16, 2003

    Posts: 3,875

    Location: Chatham

    Oh yeah don’t get me wrong it’s completely mad to be fair. I guess we just have to hope that his ideas don’t get too carried away/extreme and if they do that other Tories can discover a backbone and rally against him.
     
  12. Dirk Diggler

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 6, 2013

    Posts: 13,175

    What's with the Chinese approach for HS2? Can it be purely material supply like cheap steel etc. Or are we taking about Chinese workers actually building the system?

    Regardless of whether anyone thinks that HS2 will be a valued addition to the travel system, surely a project on that scale would be a major boost to the UK construction sector, including the manufacture of steel at home?

    Would EU regulations have permitted such a move, or are we looking at the shape of our first major trade deal in the making; i.e bypassing tariffs and regulations in an attempt to cut costs?
     
  13. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,160

    I think it must be cheap steel, the fact that Cameron veto'd a resolution to reduce usage of Chinese oversupply in the EU and the subsequent desire to buyout British Steel Ltd by the Jingye Group (in principle, I guess it could fall through) is a bit more than coincidental.

    But it could also be narrative building to deny this avenue before chestbeating about buying 'good old British', while slipping billions to the chums.

    Goodness knows.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  14. RxR

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 16, 2019

    Posts: 1,240

  15. Hagar

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 7,687

    Location: Prev. Nkata Cheshire

    Steel for rail on high speed trains will be a specified grade and anyway would not be a huge significance on price. 15% possibly on a relatively small part of the work. The trackbed would be a concrete slab rather than sleepers anyway.

    All construction taking place in the UK would be to BSEN codes and standards with an overview from the HSE so there would not be a saving on codes or regulations. Engineering qualifications would need recognition from UK institutions and staff and workforce to be CSCS trained.

    Are their savings to be had? Undoubtedly in my view. The consortia will have built in contingencies and these will be investigated prior to a start on site and the need for them avoided where possible. Many of these will be in terms of planning, programming, land purchase and other constraints.

    Can the Chinese contribute? Again very possibly they are very capable engineers. It remains to be seen in what capacity here in the UK.


    (awaiting all the cynical responses)
     
  16. a1ex2001

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 14, 2005

    Posts: 12,250

    Location: Here and There...

    While I’m sure there are lessons to be learned from China’s experience building high speed rail. I’m not sure we should be embracing to many of the methods of a country who’s construction industry death rates are high and getting higher and who consider employee welfare to be something not really worth worrying about!
     
  17. Hagar

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 7,687

    Location: Prev. Nkata Cheshire

    I could not agree more, that is why I was emphasising the regulatory framework that would be essential here.
     
  18. TJM

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jun 10, 2007

    Posts: 2,365

    To be fair to legislative drafters, it's impossible to account for all possibilities when preparing legislation as only contact with the real world will reveal how well it does or doesn't work (or society will change and the law will no longer exactly fit). The courts will always be needed to plug unforeseeable gaps in the law or to tell Parliament that a gap cannot be plugged through any reasonable interpretation of the statute and they should fix it.

    Drafting is a bit like programming. You can put as much thought into it as you want but the first user will mash all of the buttons at once and crash the program.

    That is more or less exactly what they do. Judges presume that legislation is intended to comply with the fundamental principles of domestic law and obligations under international law, so they will interpret and apply it accordingly unless (a) the wording of the legislation makes it impossible to read it that way or (b) the legislation explicitly disapplies the existing principle or obligation.

    Courts will only consider what the Parliament that existed at the time was trying to accomplish and they figure that out by reading Hansard if it isn't obvious from the legislation itself. They won't ask the government or the current Parliament for their view as 'Parliament's intent' is supposed to be a snapshot of what Parliament was thinking when it passed the legislation. It's a slightly artificial exercise as Parliament often has given a particular issue any thought.

    Oddly enough, a declaration of incompatibility with the ECHR/HRA has no direct legal effect. The government can ignore it but (by convention) fixes the issue. The value of the declaration is that it indicates the government would lose if the case was brought to the ECtHR and the government usually wants to avoid that.
     
  19. garnett

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 5,773



    So...

    Profit from gambles that lead to credit crunch...

    Then ride into power on a wave of populism caused by the Austerity we were told the credit crunch necessitated.
     
  20. garnett

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 5,773

    Blimey. This Govt's just gone from 0-60.



    As per one of the replies on Twitter - this svis what it looks like when you decide you're going to vote out the liberal elite, and replace them with an illiberal elite.