UK Government Performance 2019-2024

Soldato
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They did shut down hospitality and business, one of the games I play is developed in NZ and they had multiple occasions where they were forced to work from home for several months at a time.
 
Man of Honour
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They did shut down hospitality and business, one of the games I play is developed in NZ and they had multiple occasions where they were forced to work from home for several months at a time.

New Zealand has spent a lot less time in full national lockdown than the UK has, certain areas (especially Auckland) have been subject to more restrictions, but that's not the same thing.

I've been working from home constantly since march 2020...
 
Soldato
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New Zealand has spent a lot less time in full national lockdown than the UK has, certain areas (especially Auckland) have been subject to more restrictions, but that's not the same thing.

I've been working from home constantly since march 2020...

Your lucky you had that choice, I didn't. Instead I got to put up with people clapping every Thursday night, only to be completely forgotten about months later.
 
Soldato
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Every country in the world has handled covid poorly, and they all did different things. No one has got it right.
There are levels of handling it poorly and objectively the UK is among the worst in the world and in particular since we have a first class health system and economy versus many of the other poor performers:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBVDTILWQAElC8H?format=jpg&name=900x900

A bit out of date but still relevant given how mistakes are compounded:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBXKIqdXIAc3hMn?format=jpg&name=large

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-health-economy
 
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Caporegime
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The biggest failing for me is that the same mistakes were made over and over again. Thinking that public responsibility and people making good choices would have been enough to keep things in check was forgivable the first time, but when it was clear that approach failed completely, there was zero excuse for continually returning to it and delaying responses in the vain hope that maybe this time people will actually do it. We're still seeing this with the utter failure to bring in covid passports for mass gatherings and clear approaches on mandatory vaccinations for employment purposes.

Likewise the door for abuse of exemptions should never have been left open in the way that it was.

Some parts can't be blamed on the government, the police failure to use the regulations brought in by doing basically nothing to enforce them has to count as one of the greatest act of stupidity going, for example, and was not a failure of government. (Example https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-54295612.amp)

Given how much more directly dangerous a pandemic is was than speeding, there is zero justification for not using the speeding ticket model for breaches of pandemic control conditions.

I did have sympathy for them though. the govt changed the rules so often and were never clear of them. I heard that there were days when the police were told what rules/fines they were to follow in the morning briefing and by late morning those rules had changed by the Govt.

Also some were stupid. I heard a police sergeant on the radio saying she had to approach six cyclists who had stopped and were have some food and drink together and having a chat on a break, as they were breaching the rules. She said at the time she should have fined them if she followed the rules strictly but realised that as soon as they started moving they would no longer be in breach of the rules and not subject to a fine. She just asked them to move along.
 
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I did have sympathy for them though. the govt changed the rules so often and were never clear of them. I heard that there were days when the police were told what rules/fines they were to follow in the morning briefing and by late morning those rules had changed by the Govt.

Also some were stupid. I heard a police sergeant on the radio saying she had to approach six cyclists who had stopped and were have some food and drink together and having a chat on a break, as they were breaching the rules. She said at the time she should have fined them if she followed the rules strictly but realised that as soon as they started moving they would no longer be in breach of the rules and not subject to a fine. She just asked them to move along.

There were points like that, especially in the early, highly reactive phase, but it wasn't like that constantly and doesn't excuse the ongoing behaviour.

I wonder what that same police Sargent's view of whether speed cameras should issue fines 24/7 regardless of road conditions is?
 
Caporegime
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There were points like that, especially in the early, highly reactive phase, but it wasn't like that constantly and doesn't excuse the ongoing behaviour.

I wonder what that same police Sargent's view of whether speed cameras should issue fines 24/7 regardless of road conditions is?

Hardly the same though. Speed cameras are machines, police in person have some leeway. I have been stopped speeding on more than one occasion and have been let off with no fine and just a good talking to. The police obviously had the authority to not issue a ticket to every person they caught not wearing a mask on a train and as the article says, the majority of customers complied once spoken with or vacated the train.
 
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Hardly the same though. Speed cameras are machines, police in person have some leeway. I have been stopped speeding on more than one occasion and have been let off with no fine and just a good talking to. The police obviously had the authority to not issue a ticket to every person they caught not wearing a mask on a train and as the article says, the majority of customers complied once spoken with or vacated the train.

And did the same every time they were caught no doubt...

It was the wrong choice of approach for this situation.
 
Caporegime
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And did the same every time they were caught no doubt...

It was the wrong choice of approach for this situation.

What were they instructed to do? Issue fines for everybody without fail? The police took the view that they should "to engage, explain and encourage before issuing fixed penalty notices". That seems fair enough. That still generated 85,000 fixed penalty tickets in the first year alone. If we had got your way, that would have been 8.5 million.
 
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What were they instructed to do? Issue fines for everybody without fail? The police took the view that they should "to engage, explain and encourage before issuing fixed penalty notices". That seems fair enough. That still generated 85,000 fixed penalty tickets in the first year alone. If we had got your way, that would have been 8.5 million.

Public compliance was appalling in the lockdown for the 20-30% that thought the law didn't apply to them.

You can blame the government if they don't pass the right laws.

You can blame the public if they don't follow the laws.

You can blame the police if they actively don't enforce the laws.

The police have to accept their failures in managing the pandemic by ensuring that there was little penalty to breaking them irrespective of what the law actually said
 
Caporegime
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The police have to accept their failures in managing the pandemic by ensuring that there was little penalty to breaking them irrespective of what the law actually said

That wasn't really a police issue, it was a government issue with badly formed laws and a court issue with letting too many people off because of sob stories.
 
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That wasn't really a police issue, it was a government issue with badly formed laws and a court issue with letting too many people off because of sob stories.

It really wasn't. When the police records show they were issuing fixed penality notices in less than 1% of interventions, that's not a law problem or a courts problem, it's a process problem, and that process was owned and defined by the police themselves.

I suppose it does depend whether you actually want to fix the issues so they don't reoccur, which means ensuring working with the facts, or score points which just requires whatever suits the agenda.
 
Caporegime
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Public compliance was appalling in the lockdown for the 20-30% that thought the law didn't apply to them.

You can blame the government if they don't pass the right laws.

You can blame the public if they don't follow the laws.

You can blame the police if they actively don't enforce the laws.

The police have to accept their failures in managing the pandemic by ensuring that there was little penalty to breaking them irrespective of what the law actually said

perhaps they should have been quicker at issuing penalties but last i heard almost a third of the few penalties issues have been overturned in the courts since and a third of them have never been paid, is it any wonder that the police weren't quick at going straight for a fixed penalty ticket and took the dialogue approach with offenders?

But if that is the lesson learnt from this that the police next time immediately issue penalties without fail and things would have been better then so be it. But I hope we invest in a lot more police and build more courts/train judges/solicitors to deal with the millions of court cases. We haven't even issued court proceedings against the third who still haven't paid their fixed penalty tickets from last year yet AFAIK.
 
Soldato
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I also don't think this is the case. At the moment things have settled just above 200p a therm. The very sharp spike is shaved off. But the doesn't appear to be any respite anytime in the next few months.

It takes time, I did say momentum. The prices didnt jump up in a day, and they wont go down in a day either. With current momentum in a month things will be looking much better at the wholesale level.
 
Soldato
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If you consider having their borders closed to the rest of the world for the majority of the past 18 months "far less restrictive" then sure I guess your right.

For the vast majority of people it is, most people dont need to be hopping on planes to do their day to day routine.
 
Soldato
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There were points like that, especially in the early, highly reactive phase, but it wasn't like that constantly and doesn't excuse the ongoing behaviour.

I wonder what that same police Sargent's view of whether speed cameras should issue fines 24/7 regardless of road conditions is?

Government policy failed the police.

When they started enforcing e.g. by making sure people were only buying essentials from supermarkets, they got bad press and the populist government caved in saying they shouldnt be doing that rather than backing them up. After that it was game over for any enforcement as the police no longer had the respect of the public.
 
Soldato
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For the vast majority of people it is, most people don't need to be hopping on planes to do their day to day routine.

As is evident with everything that is happening now with regards to supply issues, while borders closed didn't have a direct impact on individuals at the time, it will have an impact further down the line as supply issues stack up causing all manner of issues, that issue is compounded further by the fact people have been essentially on an extended holiday for the past 18 months in many industries and have come to realise that working 70 hours a week sucks and they would rather spend more time at home with family. The current HGV driver crisis has been decades in the making with pay and work conditions getting worse by the year up until now when those frustrations have come full circle and have now started to bite us in the backside.

Blaming everything on the current government and/or brexit isn't going to solve anything, I see lots of people quick to blame, but no one offering solutions. Cancel brexit and sack the government isn't going to solve anything, that's just passing the buck to the next person.
 
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Blaming everything on the current government and/or brexit isn't going to solve anything, I see lots of people quick to blame, but no one offering solutions. Cancel brexit and sack the government isn't going to solve anything, that's just passing the buck to the next person.

Hang on, wasn't Brexit sold by the current government? No wonder people are quick to blame, we aren't idiots. Just because they spilt the milk it doesn't mean they shouldn't be first in line with solutions - after all it was their vision right?

As for current problems, sure Covid has a part to play but I don't see any comparative countries having the same issues we are.

So here is a punt at a solution. Re-negotiate from a position of experience (where we are now). We have great negotiators so this should be possible. If this is ideological and that isn't palatable, then yes replace the administration via a vote of no confidence and a GE. The incumbents ideology is clearly at odds with a post-covid recovery and economic health.
 
Caporegime
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But are they having supply issues+1?

There's minimal value to be had with rationalising poor governance by point to other countries.
 
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