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UK Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by scorza, Jan 31, 2009.

  1. The Running Man

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    i would say that your blissful ignorance of the situation, as it stands in the UK, does indeed breed resentment. Some people see problems, others act like there is no problem at all.

    The former will resent that. and then along comes the rest of the emotions that go with that resentment.
     
  2. wozencl

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    In the case of the average British person's opinions, based on The Sun articles and the like, on Muslims and Islam it does.

    Noone here is suggesting that all hostility is caused by ignorance, that would be a falacy, however, a great deal of it is.

    The average British person is not going to understand the differences between the different branches of Christianity (with our proud Christian heritage :rolleyes:) let alone Islam. The majority of people I know who "worry about the Muslims" do so on the basis of speculation and the exceptional cases they've read about in papers like Daily Mail and The Sun.

    Newspapers always report the extraordinary or unusual (just look at the dreadful state of science reporting in the mainstream news)).
     
  3. Yas786

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    But you see thats where you couldnt be more wrong than you are...i carry no resentment towards immigrants or muslims and thats not because im a muslim myself...im looking at it from a non muslim point of view...blissful ignorance??...well your entitled to your silly assumption i suppose...but for hte record i try not to live in a blissful ignorant world such as yourself and a few others seem fit to occupy:).

    Sure there are immigration problems in this country but tbh its the govt thats at fault but seems like no one wants to do anything about it...well the Tories are now saying they will cut immigration by 75%...yeh right sure they will. And it isnt the immigrants fault that this poxy country of ours is such a soft touch...its too late to put in a system like the Americans have in place imho...the damage has been done but further damge is being done by the likes of the BNP and their merry band of anti immigration and xenophobic muppets that support them blindly.

    I have plenty of british white friends who again carry no resentment towards immigrants or muslims for that fact.
     
  4. The Running Man

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    i think my point has gone well over your head here. My point is that resentment is building up in those who see the problem, towards those who suggest - as you are here, that there is NO problem...Because you are ignorant to the problem itself, it is almost impossible for you to understand why this would create the resentment it has. But you cannot deny that it is there, otherwise riots on the scale of Oldham, Bradford etc would NOT have happened. Yet they did.


    i agree, this is why i said they will tolerate the problem. You seem to contradict yourself though, on the one hand you call the country, 'poxy and a soft touch' implying that if it was NOT it would do things differently, so in a way you are on the one hand admitting there is a problem but that we are unable to act on it...but at the beginning of your post you imply there is no discernable problem at all.

    Stating that the damage has been done, implies to me that immigration has actually caused this country damage, and that you understand this. Therefore you should be able to understant mass disdain for the things that have happened, and going back to my previous post you must also understant that it is not in the populations interest for this to have occured. and that they did not want it, and given the choice they would not have chosen it.

    But we have to live with it, and like i said, we tolerate it.
     
  5. cotton_flex

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    The paranoia, ignorance and insecurities of some people in this thread are amazing but not surprising.

    Surely if you worked harder in preserving this 'culture' that you’re so dearly fond of then it wouldn't disappear would it, in fact you will get people accepting the culture but do you even want that? Do you even encourage that? What are you doing to propagate your own culture? Just trying to kill of someone else’s? Is it the fault of the immigrants that British people don't have enough kids to carry on their legacy (excluding the bums and chavs who are the only 'natives' that are breeding like rabbits)?

    People go on about immigrants not integrating...look at the younger generation, even the Muslim ones (especially here in London)... they get plastered just as well as the native 'chavs'. Have one night stands, drinking, love football, going out clubbing etc. This is main prevalent 'British' culture that these young people (from immigrant families) are adopting. Is this it? Is this all that you’re trying to protect? If not then what are you doing to fix this ‘culture’?

    Go to any university and just sit at the student union and see if you can tell the difference in behaviour between the native students/immigrant students. There is none, bar skin colour - is that the main problem?

    All this fear and resentment will only heck off the future generations, making them feel not welcome and thus only having their cultural roots to go on and it will become a self fulfilling prophecy.

    But I guess the daily fail readers do not get enough exposure to such environments to appreciate the lack of differences once you get know people and instead giving airtime to a few nutters thinking their world is in threat.

    As for the older generation taking over inner cities, is it their fault that the authorities over the last 30/40 years banged them all up together? Creating this so called 'closed' communities in the first place? Where was the foresight from the authorities? Of course after the war, immigrants & cheap labour were so desperately needed but middle England didn't want them as neighbours oh no so packed them together in the inner city slums sometimes 10+ people in a 2 bed flat.

    You wouldn’t have got the cheap labour from those countries. During and ater the war the UK went to its empire (and the very people it raped) for the labour force, heck my granddad (and his brother who were both part of the Indian army and done their bit in WWII) in the 50s was shown photos of Tower Bridge/Tower of London etc to entice him to come here and work and a promise of a better life.

    The saying of “we are here because you were there” applies I reckon.

    For the daily fail readers it seems that just because someone looks different it gives them enough reasons to feel insecure. Is that part of the culture? Surely from the empirical roots, diversity would and should have been normal by know? Wishful thinking I guess.

    The bigger problem (in my opinion of course) here is the breakdown of the old (and much better) British culture of strong nuclear families, communities, raising kids with proper discipline & mannerisms. Now it’s all about looking after No.1, being lazy, no commitments or ‘I guess I do’ marriages/relationships that a lot of times end up in divorces with the kids being scared for life, binge drinking, living to work all day and living life just 2 days of the week. And this is from the people who have got adequate genes that deserve propagating. Don’t you see that you’re killing off your own linage, not the immigrants?
     
  6. The Running Man

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    you missed the part where i said last 30-40 years clearly. We invited those after ww2 - that is fine, they are welcome...

    its the millions that have come since that were not invited that cause the issue.
     
  7. Vonhelmet

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    You don't invite people to immigrate, you know. That's not really how it works.
     
  8. dirtydog

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    It can be.
     
  9. Vonhelmet

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    It can be, yes, but that's not the policy at present and can't be so long as we are part of Europe.

    I'm not commenting either way on the wisdom of that, by the way.
     
  10. dirtydog

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    Just saying Britain did actively invite immigrants here in the 60s IIRC (West Indians? My history is sketchy.) And Australia once had a programme of inviting immigration from Britain.

    Anyway...
     
  11. The Running Man

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    invite, offer, make feel welcome...

    like we did after ww2...with Poles, Indians... etc nb are indians muslim?
     
  12. wozencl

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    Most are Hindu some are Muslim, Sikh or Christian etc.
     
  13. fini

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    Pretty sure. Hijab's are religious items, which cover the hair, but not the face. Niqab's and Burkas are cultural. The Koran does say that they should hide their 'adornment', but goes on to say (paraphrasing) 'except that which is necessary'. Is showing your face necessary? Considering that 93% of communication is non-verbal, much of that coming from facial expressions, then yes an uncovered face is necessary to proper communication. Anything else is an impediment and the Koran specifically says not to make the religion difficult for yourself. Hijab is thus religious, Burka is most certainly not.
     
  14. ReeVo.uK

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    They are breeding like rats!
     
  15. wozencl

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    I don't see how you can say the Hijab is religous yet the Niqab is not as the basis of the requirement to wear either is based in religion.

    Your earlier post encouraged me to look up some of the views regarding the Niqab in the Muslim world and it seems that one school of Sunni Islam, more specifically, the Hanbali school view the face as part of the beauty of a women - my terminology not theirs. Seeming as this is a school of Islamic law based on the Koran and Hadiths it would fit my definition of religious.

    To me it seems they are either both religious, due to their origins, or both cultural in the fact that what consitutes "that which is neccessary", and the level to which it is enforced, depends on the country. Though saying that, I would expect the differing views to be attributable to the branch of Islam that is pre-dominant in the country - which comes back to religion rather than culture.

    Personally I believe using culture in such a broad sense obfuscates things, one could say Islamic culture stretches from the west of Africa and the south of Spain to the Middle East, perhaps even as far as Indonesia.
     
  16. anything I don't mind

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    london has to be the most multicultural place on the planet, on one train carriage you can literally have people from all over the world and not one person born in london.
     
  17. Meridian

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    You checked their birth certificates then? Just because thy have dark skin and/or aren't speaking English doesn't mean that they weren't born here.


    M
     
  18. dirtydog

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    More's the pity.
     
  19. anything I don't mind

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    well they do say that uneducated people have more babies.... lol :eek:
     
  20. dirtydog

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    :D