Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Kyiv air defences working overtime by the sounds of it - many many intercepts and some getting through.

EDIT: Seems like at least 5 cruise missiles or similar got through though doesn't seem much detail on what they hit.
 
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This is the sort of thing Putin was warning about (before the ship was hit) - raids/attacks within Russia... Ukraine's response to that warning:

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An earlier incident in the same area of Russia:


IIRC there was also an oil facility hit here previously too, quite close to Kharkiv so perhaps will cause some issues for Russia's next push in the East of Ukraine.
 
Minusorange said:

Macron forget he's running in an election ? How can he sound like such a coward, even Trump is calling it genocide


Also seems Russian state media is ramping up the call for a war footing in the country and total destruction of Ukraine
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Correct under ICC law if a state declares that genocide is occurring they are then legally obligated to intervene and stop it

so countries are hesitant to declare it because it's almost a declaration of war
 
Grim5 said:
Correct under ICC law if a state declares that genocide is occurring they are then legally obligated to intervene and stop it

so countries are hesitant to declare it because it's almost a declaration of war
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Do they not understand the message it sends, basically, "if you have nukes, you can literally genocide people" if the idea is to create a safer world it's going to do the opposite as more nations decide that nukes not only give you protection from others attacking you, but protection from you attacking others
 
Malevolence said:
There's already another one there, Ukraine have a Slava class cruiser (The Ukraina) but it's unfinished and in a sorry state of repair. But then again, so is the majority of the Russian navy. If I were Ukraine, I'd be scuttling it where it sits right about now, just to make sure Russia can't grab it.
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The Slava’s were all built in Mykolayiv, which is where Ukraina’s been languishing ever since. Given the ongoing battle for Mykolayiv and Russia’s penchant for liberally plastering artillery fire, MLRS rockets and air dropped ordanance Willy-nilly, I wouldn’t be surprised if she was just a shattered a hulk at the bottom of the river by now.
 
16h ago
Putin warns West of 'very painful' consequences if they stop using Russian oil

Vladimir Putin has warned against further attempts for Western countries to replace Russian oil with alternatives.

He said: "This will have consequences for the world economy and the consequences of that such steps can be very painful."

Even what he calls "unfriendly countries" have not been able to stop using Russian gas.

It comes as Russia says supplies have been running into Europe, despite Western commitments to ween themselves off Russia's supply.

Mr Putin admitted there has been disruption in payments for oil and gas (after he demanded payment be made in Roubles), and said gas companies are "responsible" players in the global market.

He also accused the US of having more expensive supply lines, adding Russia's is stable and cheap.
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Ukraine news live: Zelenskyy praises 'those who showed Russian warships can sail away' after major vessel sinks | World News | Sky News
 
Grim5 said:
Correct under ICC law if a state declares that genocide is occurring they are then legally obligated to intervene and stop it

so countries are hesitant to declare it because it's almost a declaration of war
Click to expand...


This, if you declare genocide is occurring then there are legal and moral commitments. Stating that genocide is occurring and then sitting back sending over a few rockets is completely insufficient. This then gets in to a grey area of what is the difference between warcrimes and what is genocide. Macron was very clear that warcrimes have likely occurred.


Has Boris actually mentioned genocide in an official manner? If so we should be putting trtops on the ground and setting up a no-fly zone ASAP.
 
The previous justification from Macron about not calling it genocide was dumb, but this one is unfortunately the inconvenient truth.

As long as NATO is divided about the distinction between war crimes and genocide we can sort of get away with not intervening more directly. However it is abundantly clear that the goal is the eradication of Ukrainians as Putin has said as much which is backed up further by his worship of Dugin, so we've got a problem either way because the longer it goes on the less we can justify the lack of troops on the ground and the more damage we sustain to our moral authority.
 
Minusorange said:
Do they not understand the message it sends, basically, "if you have nukes, you can literally genocide people" if the idea is to create a safer world it's going to do the opposite as more nations decide that nukes not only give you protection from others attacking you, but protection from you attacking others
Click to expand...

You genocide people with a nuke, other people will ensure they're armed to genocide you if you push the finger again. It will be all out war and United Russia party will cease to exist.
 
One thing strategically did strike me.
a) The west use weapons to support Ukraine.
b) China invade Taiwan and captures resources
c) West can't produce more weapons due to semiconductor shortages
d) Russia goes on special operations world tour like the Nazis in WW2 with gunpowder and bullets plus Chinese produced arms.

Although sanctions have hit the arms industry in Russia.

Putin is saying that you can't handle the truth - and unfortunately the one trick pony Putin doesn't understand that the world needs to move away from fossil fuels. The planet is consuming itself to maintain the human race.
With fossil fuels needing semiconductors for solar, copper for generators etc wind etc that are mostly produced in China with resources they have..

The politicians/EU needs to wake up a little around this.
 
NickK said:
One thing strategically did strike me.
a) The west use weapons to support Ukraine.
b) China invade Taiwan and captures resources
c) West can't produce more weapons due to semiconductor shortages
d) Russia goes on special operations world tour like the Nazis in WW2 with gunpowder and bullets plus Chinese produced arms.

Although sanctions have hit the arms industry in Russia.

Putin is saying that you can't handle the truth - and unfortunately the one trick pony Putin doesn't understand that the world needs to move away from fossil fuels. The planet is consuming itself to maintain the human race.
With fossil fuels needing semiconductors for solar, copper for generators etc wind etc that are mostly produced in China with resources they have..

The politicians/EU needs to wake up a little around this.
Click to expand...

Don't think point C will be too bad a problem - losing production from Taiwan would be a blow but not critical - there are fabs all over which could be used in a wartime scenario including older IBM and TI facilities, all the stuff Intel has, etc. as well as efforts to move some backup TSMC facilities to the mainland US. The resources required to manufacture could require a lot of effort to bring together especially with the potential supply chain vulnerabilities as they come from all over the globe but at that point we are in WW3 proper.

I think there does need to be an awakening to the possibilities of this spilling over though for which we are not well enough prepared which increases the risks of nuclear escalation to de-escalate.
 
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