Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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I'm starting to wonder whether the UK announcement of supplying anti ship missiles might have been a deliberate feint. People here questioned at the time what kind of missile we would have. Maybe we won't be suplying them but it was a feint to make Russia over confident that, until British missiles arrived, their ships were safe. A few days later...
That's pretty dubious, the ship wasn't struck by UK-supplied missiles AFAIK, it was struck by Ukrainian Neptune missiles.
The UK-supplied missiles are shorter range and there is already footage from a few days ago showing one of them being used to down a helicopter.
If anything it was the (very real) supply of UK missiles that perhaps allowed the Ukrainians to use up some of their otherwise much needed Neptune missiles - a would be amphibious assault near Odesa can now be repelled with the UK missiles.
Given the current narrative of how this occurred I doubt the latter (that they weren't turned on) is the case (though is possible) - they were apparently distracted by a Ukrainian drone - AFAIK the ship's radar only gives partial coverage too... that the drone has their attention perhaps contributed to this. I don't know quite how automated all their defences are but if some are semi-automated and require some crew attention too then that seems to have been otherwise focused elsewhere.
That they might have been faulty does seem possible though given the state of everything else we've seen.
Other factors are that in a spot of rough seas this thing might have been harder to spot among the waves (and again focus elsewhere on the drone).
In theory, it's a (relatively) smaller missile as far as long-range anti-ship missiles go and it's subsonic, on a clear day, if spotted then some sort of CIWS ought to be able to intercept this sort of missile a lot of the time, in reality at night, just skimming above the waves, not spotted on radar/attention focused elsewhere etc.. then boom!
Sorry but this is in broken English Alan, it's not quite clear what you're trying to say and in reference to what exactly in my post?
Soldato
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I read that Neptuns can work in pairs that effectively increases their radar signature into a big blob, this means if ship defences focus on the centre of the blob it could very well mean that they hit nothing but air as the missiles aren't centre mass of the blob, also they have ability to link tracking with drones and only activate their own tracking at short ranges.
It could also be the operators like everybody else in the Russian forces are incompetent at their jobs
Also seems some reputable people on Twitter are claiming Moskva was carrying nukes
*Ukraine Prime Minister Shmyhal To Visit US Next Week
https://www.reuters.com/world/ukrai...icials-visit-washington-next-week-2022-04-15/
https://www.reuters.com/world/ukrai...icials-visit-washington-next-week-2022-04-15/
That's my point. It was not hit by UK missiles. It was never going to be hit by UK missiles. Maybe the whole UK missile story was to lull the Russians into a false sense of security. Afterall if the UK had to supply Ukraine with missiles then they couldn't have had any of their own. But we now know they did have viable missiles of their own.
I don't pretend to know what I'm talking about. But misinformation is as much a weapon in this war as anything else.
The nukes thing is interesting, AFAIK these things did used to carry at least one nuclear anti-ship missile in the cold war - the anti ship missiles it was equipped with could be armed with a nuclear warhead with the intention being to take on US carrier groups.
I'm not sure whether it could have been armed with another sort of nuke, like say a short-range ballistic missile armed with a tactical nuke. It would be great if this has removed one of the potnetial options for a tactical nuclear strike from Putin.
I'm not sure whether it could have been armed with another sort of nuke, like say a short-range ballistic missile armed with a tactical nuke. It would be great if this has removed one of the potnetial options for a tactical nuclear strike from Putin.
AFAIK Russia knew they had at least *some* Neptune missiles as they had been testing them but perhaps didn't feel threatened by them, only a handful at best and they ought to be able to deal with them. I dunno.
Formal declaration of war could be interesting - if Putin tries some mass mobilisation of reserves + compulsory conscription (beyond the general requirement for every male to serve for 1 year) then there could well be a bit of push back. As much as some of them are willing to believe in the usual propaganda/BS they're going to have to ask some questions about where this is going and why the apparent goals of the "special military operation" haven't been achieved.
How are they going to deal with possible mass descent, rioting etc.. in various parts of the country when in some regions their local riot police/national guard types who usually deal with internal dissent have been obliterated in Ukraine?
How are they going to deal with possible mass descent, rioting etc.. in various parts of the country when in some regions their local riot police/national guard types who usually deal with internal dissent have been obliterated in Ukraine?
Seems to be based on the response out of Sevastopol - however other indicators aren't backing that up - the US has said they've not tracked nuclear weapons movements tied to the ship, it isn't officially part of the Russian nuclear triad and Russian sources are claiming it isn't routinely nuclear armed and wasn't, no emergency broadcasts/activation of relevant departments which would normally follow a "broken arrow" situation, etc.
While it has a lot of limits the Grim Reapers simulation showed a couple of interesting aspects - when dealing with an analogue of the Neptune missiles the Moskva struggled if they were fired in close pairs with the second missile getting very close and it is compounded by bad weather.
It is very feasible 1 or more pairs of closely fired missiles of this type combined with rain and/or wave swell made the missiles very hard to accurately pinpoint for an intercept. Which would be kind of funny if essentially it got taken because it was raining.
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Russians are getting desperate to mass conscript.
They will get a hard time but if you get enough in numbers like they can then they could pose a huge problem for Ukrain.
Sheer numbers mean nothing to Putin, he doesn't care whether 20 or 20 thousand die, he just wants his victory parade on the 9th.
They will get a hard time but if you get enough in numbers like they can then they could pose a huge problem for Ukrain.
Sheer numbers mean nothing to Putin, he doesn't care whether 20 or 20 thousand die, he just wants his victory parade on the 9th.
bbc.co.uk said:
Seems to be sliding towards a formal war situation - not sure if they are hoping intimidation will put off 3rd parties supplying Ukraine or they think there would be no comeback from striking supplies they suspect are heading to Ukraine outside of Ukraine's borders...
If they declare war and do conscripts then the Russian people will start to question this.
Soldato
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As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I work with a Ukranian guy from the Donbas region, who’s obviously Pro-Russia, and when he discovered that the DeWalt 18v heat gun he’d ordered as a bare tool didn’t actually come with batteries or a charger, he angrily decried this as “some western trick!”. Imagine having a world-view so warped and distorted by your politics that everything that goes wrong must the fault of your country’s geopolitical enemy.
Utterly bat-**** crazy.
Soldato
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Pretty sure there will be one hell of a comeback if they target a NATO convoy in a NATO country that just happens to be heading towards the Ukrainian border, because for all they know that convoy could be NATO strengthening it's Eastern border. So if that happened, Russia would seriously get their **** pushed in.
It is the same in the UK, everything is the EU's fault, or specificaly Germany's fault
'Latest Defence Intelligence update on the situation in Ukraine - 16 April 2022'
https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1515191062901440513
https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1515191062901440513
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