Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Orangeade said:
Reading the news and narrative spewed you'd be forgiven for thinking the Ukrainians are anything less than saints. There has been a continual glossing over of any short comings. Most people don't look further than the headlines or snippets.
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Are the any worse than us? Boris the numpty and his tory cronies have syphoned of hundreds of millions for covid contracts, shipping contracts with no ships, PPe contracts that had to be sestroyed and God knows what else.

We aren't exactly saints eother, we have a huge far right problem like any other European country but this isn't about a few polititians or a few nazis.

This is genocide because an old man wants his glorey days back and will kill anyone incluing children to get his way.

There is Russian trolls on here, they are easy to spot.
 
Washout said:
and yet on the flip side of that there are those that refer to any and all defenders in Mariupol as Nazis. Is that any fairer?
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The truth doesn't care about what's "Fairer" it only cares about what's true.

It's a known fact that all 3 groups involved (UA, RU and Separatists) have fairly large contingents (900+) within their military/civil defence forces who are active Nazi's, I would hope by this point that should be an unassailable fact. What's disturbing to me is that people who appear on OcUK to be vehemently anti-Nazi (due to their use of the word to describe anyone who thinks differently to them) are then quite happy to applaud the Ukrainian Nazi's as long as they're fighting Russians, whilst justifying their support for Nazis by saying "well Russian Nazi's started it" when asked why some Nazis are Good right now. Maybe I missed the memo as aren't all Nazi's supposed to be bad people by now, wasn't that all agreed post WW2. I mean I'd hoped we'd moved past the stage of "We will look away from what my friends are doing and what they are just because they're hurting my enemies" as a society that supposedly holds itself to a higher moral standard but apparently not to a large degree it seems.

KompuKare said:
Far more worrying than any Ukrainian Nazis, is the amount of support the likes of Dugin have in Russia:
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True, they are on both sides without doubt and, to me at least, all actual Nazis are worrying, even the ones people currently like because of who they're fighting.

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Everyone knows Russia "anti-Nazi" excuse is utter rubbish and that we all hope for Russia's attack to fail and for them to get kicked out, but I hope I'm not the only who feels a little uneasy supporting (with weapons and training) people who are active Neo-Nazi's. It's going to be very awkward once peace hopefully breaks out if all these UK trained and supplied Nazi's start holding parades again like in 2016 with all their Nazi symbology on display.
 
Minusorange said:
Did they kill their immediate family as well ?
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'Stressed' banker stabbed his wife and two young children, aged 4 and 7, to death in their Westchester home before using the knife to kill himself as neighbors say they were 'the perfect family'
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...d-wife-two-young-children-murder-suicide.html

Aftermath of a murder spree: Pictures show remains of £1.2million home gutted by fire by millionaire businessman after he shot dead his wife, daughter, horses and dogs
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...sman-shot-dead-wife-daughter-horses-dogs.html

even the horses and dogs....

take off the tinfoil hat, people will do crazy stuff when their lives change for the worst and they might become poor again or have too much stress from work
 
StriderX said:
Well with luck those disturbing elements will be taken out and Russia will be defeated for a win-win.
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Question is whether Russia will accept a defeat?... or whether it is inevitable this doesn't stop until either Ukraine falls or "allied" forces take Moscow/Russian army utterly spent - at which point Putin presses the nuclear button so to speak.

Keep in mind never at any point has Putin negotiated in good faith even going back years it has been about gaming the battlefield.
 
ianh said:
… It's going to be very awkward once peace hopefully breaks out if all these UK trained and supplied Nazi's start holding parades again like in 2016 with all their Nazi symbology on display.
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While it’d be naive to think they’re completely gone my understanding of those far right groups were that for Ukraine after 2014 they were a necessary evil. Pretty much the only reason Mariupol didn’t fall back then.
Rather than try to disband them with Russia holding Donbas territory they pulled them into the military proper. I guess the hope being a proper new chain of command, rules and diluting the hardcore elements would drastically reduce the problem/embarrassment they can cause later. That’s a number of years ago so as I said, while there will be far right idiots in there it doesn’t mean it’s fair to label them all as nazis. Every able bodied man in the area would have been drafted in.
 
kitch9 said:
Are you saying there's no Russian Nazis?
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Pretty sure he said there were, though it should be noted that the Russian meaning of it is more explicitly anti-Russian than it is anything else. This unfortunately also includes Ukraine merely wanting to be independent, so 'nationalists' simply ends up being anyone who supports a Ukrainian state and they will be exterminated or re-educated (russification) if they don't change their minds on it.

Impossible to know how much of Russia cares about this, but with their media pretty much shovelling out chauvinist, Greater Russia propaganda every day I think it's fair to say that enough people agree such that there's no point in pretending diplomacy will resolve it.
 
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Washout said:
While it’d be naive to think they’re completely gone my understanding of those far right groups were that for Ukraine after 2014 they were a necessary evil. Pretty much the only reason Mariupol didn’t fall back then.
Rather than try to disband them with Russia holding Donbas territory they pulled them into the military proper. I guess the hope being a proper new chain of command, rules and diluting the hardcore elements would drastically reduce the problem/embarrassment they can cause later. That’s a number of years ago so as I said, while there will be far right idiots in there it doesn’t mean it’s fair to label them all as nazis. Every able bodied man in the area would have been drafted in.
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it will be interesting if a bunch get captured then paraded on Russian TV with nazi symbolism on their bodies
 
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Dis86 said:
The thing is, Russia also has a massive far right following and also operate far right armed units.
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Ukraine doesn't have a massive far right, it's far right parties got a lower vote share than most European countries. The significance of the Azov battilion and the smaller neo-Nazi element within it has been blown out of all proportion with its actual size and role in Ukraine.
 
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