Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[bris]

Personally I am a little sceptical about Natos weapons deliveries to Ukrain.

Now don't get me wrong it's great, there is a lot of great new equipment going over, no doubting that.

I do however suspect the some nato countries are also using this as an excuse to offload old equipment, jets, tanks etc in exchange for new American gear to bring their armies up to a modern standard at pretty much a bargain basement price.

Suppling a jet to Ukrain will **** off the Russians but their is nothing they can do about it, the risk is the same whether it's old soviet era or new Nato era so I would rather see Euro fighters. F15's etc going over to give them an edge.

The old stuff being offloaded are better than nothing but tbh I don't think they will last long and it's back to square one.

Meanwhile the Nato countries are taking delivery of their shiny new top notch gear.

To me it's like no point moth balling this old crap give it to Ukrain, the USA will pick up the bill.

 

[StriderX]

Not Germany, they only care about money and not the war.

They literally cannot afford to send any active equipment due to ~30 years of leaving their armed forces to rot (literally in the case of that stock of Strela). It's irritating but there's very little that can be done that doesn't directly hurt Germany which no leader could ever justify. At the very least they seem to be at the forefront of offering other aid as well as likely to be the principle backer of reconstruction so it's not all bad.

 

[Mrwong]

They literally cannot afford to send any active equipment due to ~30 years of leaving their armed forces to rot (literally in the case of that stock of Strela). It's irritating but there's very little that can be done that doesn't directly hurt Germany which no leader could ever justify. At the very least they seem to be at the forefront of offering other aid as well as likely to be the principle backer of reconstruction so it's not all bad.[/QUOTE

They didn't want to pay the going rate for NATO , they were warning about getting energy from Russia they went against all advise, Germany is the 3 or 4th biggest weapons exporter. None of what you say fly's with me.

Germany supplied weapons to Kurds in Syria, why not Ukraine? Germans are selective when they want to be.

Sorry but Germany is not a EU player, same as France,

 

[StriderX]

They didn't want to pay the going rate for NATO , they were warning about getting energy from Russia they went against all advise, Germany is the 3 or 4th biggest weapons exporter. None of what you say fly's with me.

Sorry but Germany is not a EU player, same as France,

I'm sure the German defence industry is doing it's part and being subsidised for it, but that still doesn't mean Germany can afford to reduce it's already barely operable capabilities in terms of it's armed forces

The blame squarely falls on previous administrations and most of it is requires a long time to resolve which is unfortunate but also impossible to get around. The diplomatic damage is more than enough punishment I think, hopefully it will enforce the revulsion at previous policies so that it can't happen again.

For France I'm not sure, but they have been expending quite a bit on operations around the world so perhaps their stocks are just low.

 

[Mrwong]

I'm sure the German defence industry is doing it's part and being subsidised for it, but that still doesn't mean Germany can afford to reduce it's already barely operable capabilities in terms of it's armed forces

The blame squarely falls on previous administrations and most of it is requires a long time to resolve which is unfortunate but also impossible to get around. The diplomatic damage is more than enough punishment I think, hopefully it will enforce the revulsion at previous policies so that it can't happen again.

For France I'm not sure, but they have been expending quite a bit on operations around the world so perhaps their stocks are just low.

Germany supplied weapons to Kurds in Syria, why not Ukraine? Germans are selective when they want to be.

 

[StriderX]

Germany supplied weapons to Kurds in Syria, why not Ukraine? Germans are selective when they want to be.

I'm pretty sure Germany has supplied weapons to Ukraine, the sticking point has regarded heavy weapons and vehicles which Germany has neglected for ~30 years.

 

[Hook]

Personally I am a little sceptical about Natos weapons deliveries to Ukrain.
Now don't get me wrong it's great, there is a lot of great new equipment going over, no doubting that.
I do however suspect the some nato countries are also using this as an excuse to offload old equipment, jets, tanks etc in exchange for new American gear to bring their armies up to a modern standard at pretty much a bargain basement price.
Suppling a jet to Ukrain will **** off the Russians but their is nothing they can do about it, the risk is the same whether it's old soviet era or new Nato era so I would rather see Euro fighters. F15's etc going over to give them an edge.
The old stuff being offloaded are better than nothing but tbh I don't think they will last long and it's back to square one.
Meanwhile the Nato countries are taking delivery of their shiny new top notch gear.
To me it's like no point moth balling this old crap give it to Ukrain, the USA will pick up the bill.

Surly Nato isn't telling the press/Russia all plans they have for supporting Ukrainia?

 

[Hagar]

I'm pretty sure Germany has supplied weapons to Ukraine, the sticking point has regarded heavy weapons and vehicles which Germany has neglected for ~30 years.

They took the 'peace' dividend from the bringing down of the Berlin Wall and in the following euphoria of reunification they forgot to carry on a continuing modernisation thinking hostilities were all in the past.

 

[Rroff]

Personally I am a little sceptical about Natos weapons deliveries to Ukrain.

Now don't get me wrong it's great, there is a lot of great new equipment going over, no doubting that.

I do however suspect the some nato countries are also using this as an excuse to offload old equipment, jets, tanks etc in exchange for new American gear to bring their armies up to a modern standard at pretty much a bargain basement price.

Suppling a jet to Ukrain will **** off the Russians but their is nothing they can do about it, the risk is the same whether it's old soviet era or new Nato era so I would rather see Euro fighters. F15's etc going over to give them an edge.

The old stuff being offloaded are better than nothing but tbh I don't think they will last long and it's back to square one.

Meanwhile the Nato countries are taking delivery of their shiny new top notch gear.

To me it's like no point moth balling this old crap give it to Ukrain, the USA will pick up the bill.

TBH this is partly why we've sent a lot of nlaws - they don't have a shelf life of forever and the older ones in inventory will have to be replaced/refurbished in a few short years anyhow.

Personally I feel like there is a lot of interest in letting this situation simmer for some reason, especially with the US, rather than allow a decisive tipping of the balance - albeit that may need some careful consideration as to the longer term consequences and for the likes of the US it benefits them to have Russia bleed.

 

[Mrwong]

I'm pretty sure Germany has supplied weapons to Ukraine, the sticking point has regarded heavy weapons and vehicles which Germany has neglected for ~30 years.

No weapons just a promise to give them helmet's.

 

[Mrwong]

TBH this is partly why we've sent a lot of nlaws - they don't have a shelf life of forever and the older ones in inventory will have to be replaced/refurbished in a few short years anyhow.

Personally I feel like there is a lot of interest in letting this situation simmer for some reason, especially with the US, rather than allow a decisive tipping of the balance - albeit that may need some careful consideration as to the longer term consequences and for the likes of the US it benefits them to have Russia bleed.

Russia loves to annex countries, they have been doing it for 300 years. They still have the imperial mind set.

 

[banbom44]

Personally I am a little sceptical about Natos weapons deliveries to Ukrain.

Now don't get me wrong it's great, there is a lot of great new equipment going over, no doubting that.

I do however suspect the some nato countries are also using this as an excuse to offload old equipment, jets, tanks etc in exchange for new American gear to bring their armies up to a modern standard at pretty much a bargain basement price.

Suppling a jet to Ukrain will **** off the Russians but their is nothing they can do about it, the risk is the same whether it's old soviet era or new Nato era so I would rather see Euro fighters. F15's etc going over to give them an edge.

The old stuff being offloaded are better than nothing but tbh I don't think they will last long and it's back to square one.

Meanwhile the Nato countries are taking delivery of their shiny new top notch gear.

To me it's like no point moth balling this old crap give it to Ukrain, the USA will pick up the bill.

Won't the Russians just shoot them down anyway because they have good surface to air missiles.

 

[ianh]

They didn't want to pay the going rate for NATO , they were warning about getting energy from Russia they went against all advise, Germany is the 3 or 4th biggest weapons exporter. None of what you say fly's with me.

The German Military and the German Defense Industry are two different things.

The Defense Industry could, if allowed, supply the heavy weapons Ukraine has asked for but there would be an "unacceptable" delay whilst they build them.

The Military however has "ready to go" heavy equipment, only lots of it doesn't work, is broken awaiting spares etc.

So whilst Germany maybe the "3rd/4th biggest exporter" in your words, those exports take quite a long time to happen, and the only "ready to go" stock is held by the Military but that's not ready at all, due to the Government's low spending and that is why Germany is refusing to allow Military equipment to be sent, even though they've told the exporters that they are allowed to.

 

[banbom44]

I'm pretty sure Germany has supplied weapons to Ukraine, the sticking point has regarded heavy weapons and vehicles which Germany has neglected for ~30 years.

A lot of the stuff they sent was absolute crap though it was going mouldy some of it.

 

[banbom44]

Germany supplied weapons to Kurds in Syria, why not Ukraine? Germans are selective when they want to be.

They feel guilty about what they did to the Russians in the second world war.

 

[Mrwong]

The German Military and the German Defense Industry are two different things.

The Defense Industry could, if allowed, supply the heavy weapons Ukraine has asked for but there would be an "unacceptable" delay whilst they build them.

The Military however has "ready to go" heavy equipment, only lots of it doesn't work, is broken awaiting spares etc.

So whilst Germany maybe the "3rd/4th biggest exporter" in your words, those exports take quite a long time to happen, and the only "ready to go" stock is held by the Military but that's not ready at all, due to the Government's low spending and that is why Germany is refusing to allow Military equipment to be sent, even though they've told the exporters that they are allowed to.

No they did not. Some countries wanted to donate some of their German weapons. The German government told them not to or those countries would lose their license to buy from Germany.

Up untill a few days ago French and Germans were still selling weapons to Russia. How is that supporting Ukraine.

 

[Mrwong]

They feel guilty about what they did to the Russians in the second world war.

What the Russians are doing to Ukraine not make them feel guilty?
Germany money is feeding Russian military.

Up untill a few days ago French and Germans were still selling weapons to Russia. How is that supporting Ukraine.

 

[StriderX]

No they did not. Some countries wanted to donate some of their German weapons. The German government told them not to or those countries would lose their license to buy from Germany.

That was early on though and whilst ridiculous I'm pretty sure they changed the law to allow it.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

That was early on though and whilst ridiculous I'm pretty sure they changed the law to allow it.

Its not ridiculous its standard.
Any country (well serious ones) that exports arms limit their resale since otherwise there is zero point in choosing who you will and will not sell to.

 

[Mrwong]

Oh and any Russian mercenary captured by the Ukrainians or foreign people in the Russian military should be hanged. This is what the Russians wanted to do, then the Ukrainians should do it to.