Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[bris]

At least Biden can talk albeit sometimes pretty slowly without making every second sentence about him.
When he speaks it's not about him but about what matters to all Americans not just his party.

Trump start to speak and after 3 words its all about him and the stolen election, he goes on so many rants that he forgets what he was meant to be talking about. He's the most toxic, corrupt politician the USA has ever had and none of them have clean hands.

We all know he's a Russian spy and treasonous dog who literally tried a coup d' etat, I'm just surprised how slow the US has been to charge him with it although his MAGA senators are keeping him safe for now, but his times running out.

 

[Harlequin]

I think 12 soldiers were laying on the ground having already surrendered, one man came out firing, and as a result the rest of the soldiers seemed to have been executed. I think it's only beneficial to Russian propaganda to claim it's an act of self defense.

I don't think this is worth discussing further as it's just an irrelevant tangent, I don't think Ukraine is committing atrocities on the same level as Russia, but it is naïve to think that Ukraine haven't also treated Russian soldiers brutally, as anyone familiar with this type of warfare would expect. This isn't exactly a hearts and minds operation.

YOU were the one who started this in the first place! Rule 65 of Geneva Conversions 1949.

 

[SpellowHouse]

I think the difference is that the Russian commanders seem to be ordering their men to be barbaric at times.

 

[Roar87]

I think the difference is that the Russian commanders seem to be ordering their men to be barbaric at times.

Is there evidence of that? Genuine question.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

I think the difference is that the Russian commanders seem to be ordering their men to be barbaric at times.

Wagner group is it not? They're semi autonomous and a law unto themselves and a bunch of murderous thugs. War crimes happen in all conflicts there are even british soldiers accused of incidents in the gulf etc. The difference is whether they're isolated unsanctioned acts or are policy which seems to be the case with them.

 

[CHokKA]

Biden spells out what's at stake in Ukraine as conflict marks 1 year

ABC News' David Muir sat down with President Joe Biden as the U.S. announced a new round of sanctions against Russia and additional military aid to Ukraine.W...

www.youtube.com

That's the latest interview I could find of Biden, because he hardly does any, but this is painful viewing at times. Also clearly cut and edited.

I watched the first five minutes and there was no lack of coherence to his answers at all. I think you must have been watching with a different audio feed, or you're just totally biased.

 

[Turn]

*Ukraine’s Defence Minister: Alleged Pentagon Document Leaks Are a Mixture of True and False Information
*Ukraine’s Defence Minister: He Believes Document Leak Was an Information Operation Which Benefited Russia and Its Allies
*Ukraine’s Defence Minister, Asked About Media Report Based on Leaks, Says It Is Untrue There Are NATO Troops In Ukraine

*Ukraine’s Eastern Military Command: Russian Mercenary Group’s Claim of Controlling More Than 80% of Bakhmut Is Untrue
*Ukraine’s Eastern Military Command: Ukraine Controls ‘Considerably More’ Territory in Bakhmut Than That

 

[bingham67]

If our troops were shown beheading someone I think we'd be very interested in finding them and charging them via court martial ourselves. Russia would probably just retweet it.

Putin will give them a medal like the Bucha atrocities last year

This why Russia need to be stopped by all means if necessary, he dosnt control his army nobody get punished they are barbarians and just get rewarded for sick and deprived stuff.

 

[Freakbro]

I don't think this is worth discussing further as it's just an irrelevant tangent, I don't think Ukraine is committing atrocities on the same level as Russia,

Then you probably shouldn't have said

Listen, as much as Ukraine is fighting a defensive war on it's own sovereign territory, they have also committed the same kind of atrocities. Both sides are treating each other like animals. That's what war does to people.

Which is what I think people took exception too, not that there hasn't been any Ukranian war crimes, I'm sure there has. The difference is scale, level of atrocity and whether it is random acts by individuals or an active tactic by the military force.

Is there evidence of that? Genuine question.

Have you heard any condemnation? Approval whether tacit or active is still approval. If videos surface of Ukranian fighters beheading Russians and putting heads on sticks then I'd fully expect it to be condemned by our side and the perpetrators held to account.

 

[bingham67]

Bucha massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Just a reminder of Russian atrocity from last year

 

[Harlequin]

If this is Wagnar, they are not covered by the Geneva Conventions anyway Rule 108 explicitly covers this as does Rule 47

 

[Roar87]

Then you probably shouldn't have said


Which is what I think people took exception too, not that there hasn't been any Ukranian war crimes, I'm sure there has. The difference is scale, level of atrocity and whether it is random acts by individuals or an active tactic by the military force.



Have you heard any condemnation? Approval whether tacit or active is still approval. If videos surface of Ukranian fighters beheading Russians and putting heads on sticks then I'd fully expect it to be condemned by our side and the perpetrators held to account.

I said the same kinds, but not on the same level; i.e. Russia have committed more atrocities, but Ukrainian soldiers have obviously done the kinds of things you would expect in that kind of war. These are tough men fighting a brutal war in torrid conditions. If I see a head on a spike in Bakhmut I expect Ukraine will be doing rather the same kind of things in return so I'm not shocked. War is hell.

 

[Freddie1980]

Is there evidence of that? Genuine question.

Russia has a well documented history of treating people in occupied lands with pure brutality. To name a few; Ivan the terrible reign of terror and paranoia, Czar Nicholas II recklessly wasting millions of men in the killing fields of WW1, the Holodomor of Ukraine, the ruthless crackdowns on down of anti socialist revolts in Czechoslovakia and Hungry, mass rape of German women at the end of WW2, the destruction of Grozny, the destruction of Aleppo.

Those are just the historical examples, moving on the recent and current times today's Russia's are doing the ancestors proud with their treatment of Ukrainian civilians and POW's

- The murder of civilians in Bucha

Ukraine: Russian Forces’ Trail of Death in Bucha

Russian forces committed a litany of apparent war crimes during their occupation of Bucha, a town about 30 kilometers northwest of Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv, from March 4 to 31, 2022.

www.hrw.org

- The murder of civilians in Hostmel

Gunned down on a mercy mission: Witnesses say Russian troops killed Hostomel mayor and two volunteers | CNN

As Russian forces closed in on Hostomel in late February, the town's mayor Yurii Prylypko urged local residents to take care of each other.

edition.cnn.com

- Castration Ukrainian PoW's

Video appears to show Russian soldier castrating Ukrainian prisoner

Footage shows soldier with knife and surgical gloves mutilating prisoner as he lies down with hands bound

www.theguardian.com

There's no point in thinking it's just propaganda or fake news, crimes by military forces in other people's countries isn't uncommon just look at what the Yanks were upto in Abu Ghraib. The difference is the west we have just about enough oversight and social expectations to make sure at least someone gets held accountable, in Russia it's done under orders from the boss.

 

[NickK]

If this is Wagnar, they are not covered by the Geneva Conventions anyway Rule 108 explicitly covers this as does Rule 47

I suspect war crimes are possible by contractors, although they can point to a customer’s orders there is also the ability to say no from a contract perspective otherwise you’re complicit and legal game.

 

[alchal]

Although the discussion went into personal attacks again, I think this is an important point

Why would one not remember?

This could be one of three reasons
1. There genuinely were no atrocities committed by one side in a bloody war, a first in history of wars and atrocities.
2. One is not told about it by media
3. One is selectively blocking out information to avoid cognitive dissonance (from conflict with internal representation of situation formed by 2).

Never forget that there is information war going on and short of going to the front lines, you are not getting 100% truth from any media source.

Because I go on plenty of forums that are full of Russians and they post absolutely anything they can to make Ukraine look bad, but to date they have provided nothing, well apart from staged videos that they filmed being staged!

Plus Reddit and Twitter , you honestly think Russia isn't or would post anything that Ukraine does bad ?


Perhaps you could list Ukrainian atrocities for me ? As I have obviously missed them.

 

[Rroff]

Perhaps you could list Ukrainian atrocities for me ? As I have obviously missed them.

I know of one, though technically not Ukrainian as the perpetrator was foreign legion, but it is a bit controversial and I don't have all the facts. A certain YouTube channel which is trying to raise money for some injured foreign legion fighters is misportraying the events which lead to them being injured but I don't have the full facts so won't elaborate (I suspect in the longer run the drama will come out like happened with the Canadian guy and James).

 

[Quartz]

but Ukrainian soldiers have obviously done the kinds of things you would expect in that kind of war.

Obviously? Bring forth your evidence.

 

[ubersonic]

I wish ukraine stil had its nukes

It wouldn't have helped, from a logistical point of view you can't actually hit eastern Russia with an ICBM fired from Ukraine anyway so useless. From a political and economical point of view they would have found far less favour with the west as a result and would never have received the debt relief from Russia needed to rebuild after the fall of the USSR, by now the country would either be just a Russian puppet state or have voted to re-join Russia.

On the other hand, if they still had hundreds of Scuds ready to turn Moscow into a Mariupol lookalike and the industry to produce more then Putin would never have dared invade. The comical part of that is it was Biden who convinced Ukraine to scrap them all back when he was Obama's VP, so the USA could gain favour with Putin (who would feel safer knowing he didn't have a pro-EU neighbour who could wreck Moscow anymore), worked out great >.>

 

[Roar87]

Obviously? Bring forth your evidence.

I'd probably have to venture on the types of Telegram groups I'd rather avoid

 

[ubersonic]

^ Nonsense.

A bit like every single one of your posts.

You realise the person you're replying to is one of the most consistently high quality posters in the entire thread and has been for many years right?

The fact you don't like one of his posts doesn't magically invalidate that history, nor does it make the post itself factually incorrect even if it may be a hard truth.

Two wrongs don't make a right, acknowledging Ukraine's soldiers hands aren't clean either doesn't automatically make somebody pro-Russian it makes them a realist, nor does it make them blind to the fact Russians shouldn't even be there to be the perpetrators/victims of horrendous acts in the first place either.