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ULEZ - Ultra low emission zones for central and inner London

Discussion in 'Motors' started by kona786, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. kona786

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 25, 2007

    Posts: 16,986

    Location: Downtown

    Another day another new tax.

    It seems as though this is actually going to happen. It'll affect those in London who motor into central London but more surprisingly inner London too, inside the A406.

    From what I've gathered its £12.50/day for Petrol cars Pre 2000 and Diesel Pre 2012/13. Motorcycles and Vans included.

    This will affect me and my 20yo Celica. I travel to work by car inside the North Circ. There goes my intentions of owning anymore older cool cars pre 2000.

    Anyone here heard and affected by this? It seems to be a ploy by the government to get older cars off the road. Though it's a bit harsh on people with Diesels not that old.




    [​IMG]



    MAP

    http://content.tfl.gov.uk/ulez-boundary-map-from-25-october-2021.pdf

    CAR CHECKER

    https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/vrm-checker-ulez
     
  2. paradigm

    Caporegime

    Joined: Aug 26, 2003

    Posts: 34,664

    Location: Staffordshire

    I’m not really sure that this is anything other than a good thing. City centre air quality (not just London) is terrible for the most part. Ridding the city centre streets of the most polluting vehicles seems like a good idea to me.

    This is what the congestion charge should have been from the off IMO.
     
  3. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,824

    It's greener to keep an old petrol car running than buy a new one every few years though.
     
  4. paradigm

    Caporegime

    Joined: Aug 26, 2003

    Posts: 34,664

    Location: Staffordshire

    First off, it’s not every few years, this affects petrol cars that are 18+ years old (19 years old when this actually takes effect). Secondly the overall carbon footprint might be lower to keep an older car running (though with the 18+ years involved I’m not sure that’s true), but it certainly won’t help city centre air quality, which is the ultimate goal.
     
  5. Kaka

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 11, 2004

    Posts: 1,268

    Location: Curitiba

    I'm not affected and while I agree in most parts with the plans, TFL and train operators need to vastly improve train provisions before this can work well in the long term.
     
  6. kona786

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 25, 2007

    Posts: 16,986

    Location: Downtown

    The thing is they're not just picking out the most polluting vehicles. Any and every pre 2000 petrol car will be charged. Thus a pre 2000 1.25 fiesta gets penalised, yet a 2001 e39 M5 won't. Its a little too broad brush stroke.

    And this will be affecting a significant number of people, I'm surprised its actually happening.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  7. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,824

    For now, but they are planning to make it cover more recent cars as well eventually. They already have their sites on current diesels as some of them are still pretty bad.
     
  8. Fusion

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 9,856

    Location: Notts

    This will become a template which regional cities will follow. Birmingham are looking at a similar charge to cover everything within the Middleway. ANPR technology is now so widely spread that it's only a matter of time before it's rolled out further. There is real uproar and concern about NOX levels in cities, and governments now are having to be seen to do more than just finger waving and providing the odd new Park & Ride service.

    What I'd like to see is the revenue from these schemes recycled into new public transport links, to give new, faster, more reliable options for travelling into and around cities (or even road improvements, but this is very unlikely). I think we all know the odds on this happening, though.
     
  9. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,824

    Public transport is even worse. One diesel bus kicks out as much pollution as a whole street of cars. They also make a hell of a racket.
     
  10. Fusion

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 9,856

    Location: Notts

    Bus and rail travel are normally much more efficient than cars on metrics such as emissions per head, area/length required per passenger, etc. I was thinking electrified transport though- trams, light rail.
     
  11. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,824

    In places outside of major cities, buses often have a handful of people on them :p

    For people outside of London, using a bus to commute costs more than driving. So people don't use them.

    Most of the country has no worthwhile rail links either. Short-sighted governments sold them off and tore them up decades ago.
     
  12. Scania

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 25, 2004

    Posts: 23,128

    Location: On the road....

    Most modern busses are actually far more environmentally friendly than you may appreciate, they are derived from HGV’s which have to meet some of the strictest emissions standards of all vehicles.
    In certain cases, a fully loaded articulated truck produces the same emissions as a VW Polo....

    This may come as a surprise....

    [​IMG]

    http://www.driving.co.uk/news/vw-polo-toxic-fully-laden-lorry/amp/
     
  13. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,555

    As an asthmatic I can confirm that air quality in London is awful. I live in the countryside and commute into many cities, but in London the air once I am down form more than 24 hours has me reaching for an inhaler, where anywhere else I don't and at home I never need it these days. Of course if you don't suffer from such an issue or are of a younger age then you will be fairly oblivious, even more so if it's all you know, but it doesn't change the fact. It's like all those chair threads recommending crap chairs like the Markus. It's when you have a bad back you notice a crap chair. If you don't have a bad back you won't notice it, but it doesn't change the fact it's still a crap chair.

    Too many cars in London, too many taxis, too many busses and it needs fixing. For me the city (square mile) should be car free, taxi free and bus free. Make it fully pedestrianised and create points of entry and exit that mean drop offs are easy. There is enough money in the city to make it workable, weather resistant and better.
     
  14. Fusion

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 9,856

    Location: Notts

    Classic VW again :o
     
  15. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,824

    VW/VAG isn't a great example to use :D
     
  16. Joe T

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2003

    Posts: 11,294

    Location: Northampton

    Totally irrelevant in this case. And of course, twe're talking about air quality, not CO2. Do you even think before posting?

    I think you mean "sights". And it wont be current 6.2 Euro diesels, not for a very long time. Do you even think before posting?

    Not true at all. Unless the "whole street of cars" isnt moving.

    And electric busses are coming. For example, China has 400,000 electric busses, and is adding around 5,000 new ones to the fleet every day. 5,000 is about the size of London's bus fleet...

    Do you even think before posting?
     
  17. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,824

    Do you? lol

    1000s of buses in London fail EU standards by a LONG way. Even some of the newer diesels. Also where do you think all this electricity to charge the buses is coming from? (hint: it's not fairy dust).
     
  18. Matthew.M

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 3,109

    Location: Birmingham

    The only thing which concerns me about this is including Blackwall tunnel in the zone. This will push more traffic which wants to cross the river east of the centre out to Dartford which already can’t cope with current traffic levels.

    Otherwise, great idea.
     
  19. Joe T

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2003

    Posts: 11,294

    Location: Northampton

    That's not what you said originally. Also, some backup for your assertions would be useful.

    I'm assuming you're referring to stuff like this:

    https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/pollution-and-air-quality/cleaner-buses
     
  20. Scania

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 25, 2004

    Posts: 23,128

    Location: On the road....

    The irony is I think the best they tested was a Passat (although probably cheating:D)

    And Scania are owned by...... VW.