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ULEZ - Ultra low emission zones for central and inner London

Discussion in 'Motors' started by kona786, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. Amp34

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2005

    Posts: 28,398

    Location: Canada

    You're being to generous. Everywhere inside Zone 1 would be ideal, although I realise that would cover a significant number of residential streets as well. Swap the buses over to electric and ban Taxis and it would be ideal. There is very little reason to need to drive in Zone 1.
     
  2. NickXX

    Soldato

    Joined: May 19, 2005

    Posts: 6,987

    It’s not- it’s based on Euro4 standards for petrols which means a lot of post 2000 cars will be charged.

    Does anyone know if the standard will be rolling? I.e. moving onto tougher regs in 2021 or sticking with the Euro4/Euro6 baseline?
     
  3. NickXX

    Soldato

    Joined: May 19, 2005

    Posts: 6,987

    The whole point of the scheme is to reduce emissions in the city. The electricity isn’t generated in the city.
     
  4. NickXX

    Soldato

    Joined: May 19, 2005

    Posts: 6,987

    This seems totally OTT, you could use the same argument to extend this to zone 2. As you’ve already stated, there are a significant number of residential streets. People who live in the zone should at least have the choice to get the bus or drive- particularly as the congestion charge already penalises you for the latter.
     
  5. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 11,379

    Location: N.Warks

    How profound - how did you gain this intelligence?

    The electricity comes from various sources including nuclear and renewables and has the ability to get cleaner as times goes by, the opposite of what happens to an aging bus - it only gets dirtier.
     
  6. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,042

    Even then, power plants are way more efficient and less polluting than ICEs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  7. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,042

    nvm, probably wrong
     
  8. Jumper118

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 17, 2012

    Posts: 4,668

    Location: Leeds

    better hire a ford f350 super duty with a straight pipe to make the most of it then
     
  9. Merlin5

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 17, 2009

    Posts: 13,552

    Location: Finchley Central, London

    I've used the ULEZ checker and my 51 plate 307 diesel doesn't meet the new ULEZ standard so I'll have to pay the new charge. Might have to pay the congestion charge as well which would mean £24 a pop. Fortunately, I hardly ever drive into central London. However, once they extend to the north circular it'll affect me more.

    Something I'm not quite clear on is the other thing happening 26th October 2020 where they're changing the standard emissions to the ultra low emissions. It says

    A change from LEZ standards
    If you drive a lorry, van, bus, minibus or other specialist vehicle and it currently meets the Low Emission Zone emissions standards, it may not meet the new ULEZ standards. Check if your vehicle meets the ULEZ standards using our ULEZ vehicle checker.

    From 26 October 2020 the emission standards for LEZ will change to match the ULEZ standards.

    And here is a pdf showing details. http://content.tfl.gov.uk/lez-ulez-comparison-table.pdf

    Will the emissions standards changing from LEZ to ULEZ after October next year affect passing MOT's, or only be applicable when driving into ULEZ zones? And it looks like it's not referring to cars, just buses and lorries? I'm just wondering if I'll be forced to finally get rid of my car if it won't pass MOTs. Currently, it passes just the standard low emission test.
     
  10. lemonade

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 5, 2010

    Posts: 3,246

    Location: On Your Screen

    It's already be signed off.

    I'm also like you, I run a 20 year old car which I love to bits, and I am into my 80's and 90's cars, many of which I still aim to own at some point. I am planning on moving outside the A406, but it still raises the issue that I can't come into certain areas where my friends, family and places I regularly visit.

    Complete joke and seems very much a gentrification scheme.

    What's funny is I only do 2000miles a year so my carbon footprint is going to be smaller than someone who does 50k in a brand new car, as do so many people I know.

    It was the diesel incentive that pushed up the nox levels, not people running older cars and doing only a few thousand miles a year, yet they will be punished for it.

    Forgot to mention they also plan on extending it to M25 after the A406 boundary.
     
  11. lemonade

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 5, 2010

    Posts: 3,246

    Location: On Your Screen

    As someone who took up Cycling, I would agree square mile ban, also since they are bringing in all these car taxes and making things hard, then they should have separate cycle lanes on every road and enforce some road rules on cyclists and be done with cars.
     
  12. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 3,584

    I’m not sure how people aren’t getting this, it’s not about carbon footprints or CO2 emissions, it’s purley about air quality in London.

    Air quality is all about removing things like pm2.5, nox and other toxins from where people live and work.

    There is a clear difference in air quality between were I live and London, particularly zone 1. You can even taste it when you get off the train on bad pollution days.
     
  13. Gamefreak501

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 7, 2003

    Posts: 7,973

    Location: Bedfordshire

    I never much enjoyed driving or riding in London, too many idiots and too much congestion, so this suits me fine. I'll carry on using trains and buses to get around and hopefully we can all breathe a bit easier as well.
     
  14. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 3,584

    Adding taxis and PHVs to the congestion charge should also help in the heart of London.
     
  15. lemonade

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 5, 2010

    Posts: 3,246

    Location: On Your Screen

    I mentioned carbon footprint, but what I meant was everything including Nox. As someone who lives in London and travels daily on cycle in central London, I know the air is terrible though I am used to it so dont feel it on daily basis, you can feel the difference in air as soon as you enter London after being outside of the city for a while, something definitely needs to be done about it. But point is the new regulation doesn't take into consideration the nuances of car usage and cars themselves. I won't be allowed to use my car, yet someone in theory can buy a brand new Range Rover and do 50k miles and be allowed, but I have to pay if I want to do 1-2k a year, I'm pretty sure my pollution footprint would be much smaller than the Range.

    They will just transfer the cost to customers.

    They have actually stopped old taxis and cars used as cabs from being exempt.
     
  16. b0rn2sk8

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 3,584

    I accept that your overall polution footprint would be lower but this is about pollution in inner London, you aren’t doing 50k regardless.

    The way I see it is that the policy is not designed to discourage car usage, it’s designed to discourage the usage of old polluting cars. If public transport was already the most effective solution for those journeys the chances are that people would already be using it.

    There are only so many cars that will physically fit on the roads in inner London, if some cars are taken off the road, others will just take their place. If someone breathes in the fumes from your car or the fumes from a new Range Rover there will be a considerable difference between the two.

    If the policy gets those old cars out of the city, it’s working as intended.

    You have to remember the psychology of these sorts of charges. Remember when £30 road tax came in and people in their droves spent tens of thousands on a brand new Fiesta to save £200 on tax. I remember people being (rightly) belittled for it on this very forum. People will also sell on their Euro 4 and 5 petrols ‘just in case’.

    Eventually it will be extended to all ICE and the. Hybrids.

    I believe this will be very effective way of getting non euro6 diesels out of the city.
     
  17. lemonade

    Mobster

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    The policy is in place to lower London's pollution level, not necessarily about discouraging use of old cars, but the reason behind that is the assumption that someone having an old car is part of the the problem and taking them away would help solve the issue, which in theory might be true, because older cars will emit more pollution to an equivalent newer one, but in practice the part about pollution being reduced isn't necessarily true, e.g. I could get rid of my old car that I only do 2k a year in and get an SUV and do 50k. I would actually be contributing more to the pollution and bad air quality.

    If you actually want to reduce pollution and improve the air quality then quite frankly you need a reduction in the usage of vehicles that create pollution, a newer car is efficient but it still emits pollution and collectively they create the problem, the more people drive the more pollution being emitted, everyone can buy a brand new cars tomorrow and start driving more and be completely in line with the new regs, this won't improve the air quality, will probably make it worse.

    Just like how the diesel promotion was a kneejerk policy, this is yet another badly thought out policy that lacks any nuance or real world practicality because these policies are often produced theoretically from my own experiences.

    Fact of the matter is there are far too many cars in London (huge increase in Cabs, a lot of whom drive from outside into London for work), far too many unnecessary vehicle types (e.g. big engined SUV), far too many unnecessary trips (people driving a mile or two on their own to the shops when they could just walk or cycle).

    I don't disagree that a lot of old cars need to be taken off road, mostly all the horrible diesels, but the policy will punish a lot of people who might for example not be able to afford newer cars, prefer old cars, have attachment to an old car etc, people who dont do many miles and dont contribute much to the pollution output.
     
  18. Joe T

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2003

    Posts: 11,221

    Location: Northampton

    I'd like to meet the guy doing 50k a year in central London in a new Range Rover. :)
     
  19. mrk

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 83,276

    Location: South Coast

    *Laughs in emissions*
     
  20. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,042

    You'd still have to the congestion charge though.

    Also I'd rather have that in my face than a similar age diesel.