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Poll: United States presidential election 2016 (Clinton Vs. Trump)

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Zefan, Oct 29, 2016.

?

Who would you like to become the next president of the US?

Poll closed Nov 7, 2016.
  1. Donald Trump

    122 vote(s)
    48.0%
  2. Hillary Clinton

    132 vote(s)
    52.0%
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  1. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,109

    Location: On the hoods

    Destructive to whom? Those taking them? That's punishment enough. Better to go after those bringing unregulated drugs in or pushing them than attacking those taking them. That doesn't achieve anything.

    Granted, PCP is horrific stuff, but as said punishing people who take it won't help. People prepared to take PCP aren't going to be deterred by the threat of prosecution.
     
  2. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,109

    Location: On the hoods

    How does imprisoning them help them overcome that? Particularly when drugs are rife in prison?

    Good for you. That's wonderful for you. You're a monument to willpower. How does that help with people battling with other drugs who may not have that strength, or who may have worse life situations that drive them to drugs, or who are taking more disruptive drugs than nicotine? It's one thing smoking, which you can do on a break at work, quite another to be on heroin. Do you think many heroin addicts are holding down jobs? What is in it for them if they give up? And how is prison supposed to help with that? If they weren't holding down a job before prison, they slcertainly wont be afterwards with our awful rates of reoffending, woeful rehabilitation and attitude to ex convicts.

    [quoe=Billies Bangers]Many addicts hwve addictive personalities. It is against the law and believe it or not courts give these people a lot of rope over quite a long period of time before the cell door awaits them. Sooner or later though society needs a break from such people and their acquisitive crimes.[/QUOTE]

    Guess what, prison will do naff all for an addictive personality. You need psychological therapy to get past that. And it's irrelevant whether or not taking drugs is illegal - that's circular reasoning. If it weren't illegal then it wouldn't be illegal... then we could offer them some real help to break their cycles of addiction and save some money on paying to keep them in prison.
     
  3. scorza

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 22, 2004

    Posts: 26,685

    Location: Deep England

  4. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,109

    Location: On the hoods

    "This honeymoon phase is common for new presidents. For example, Obama saw about a 20 point swing in his favor following the 2008 election."

    So it's basically meaningless. Let's wait until he's in office before we queue up to let him grab us by the whatever.

    Anyway, it's hardly "unifying" when 46 percent like him and 46 percent don't. Presumably the other 8 percent just don't care.
     
  5. Tosno

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 19, 2015

    Posts: 2,801

    Location: Gloucester

    Johann Hari... Johann Hari.... Isn't he the one that called pedos the biggest victim group?

    Anyone interested in the drug war should read: The War We Never Fought - Peter Hitchens.
     
  6. datalol-jack

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,178

    Ahh, finally something meat-like has been linked. A stat that immediately jumped out to me:

    America... I don't even... /facepalm

    Read both, check the footnotes and ping some independent experts. Then make your mind up. :p With Peter trying to combat the biochemistry of addiction through faith and reason as a neuroscience layman, it should be a fun read. I think him and Hari would be evenly matched in entertainment value.
     
  7. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,109

    Location: On the hoods

    Sex offenders are another group that are woefully badly rehabilitated and supported, if that's the point you're hoping to make.
     
  8. datalol-jack

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,178

    Something tells me Tosno isn't into the whole rehabilitation/redemption thing: less Jesus, more hellfire.
     
  9. Billies Bangers

    Banned

    Joined: Sep 18, 2014

    Posts: 961

    Location: Planet Earth

    I suspect there are a number of demographics at play here. In the main the younger demographic who would advocate more tolerance and may have dabbled themselves. Then you have the older demographic who are law abiding and hate the whole concept of drug taking.

    The latter group will have little sympathy and just want these people banged up for as long as possible. If the perpetrator comes out and starts again then a repeat sentence. If this is what society demands then that's the way it is.
     
  10. Caged

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 23,236

    "If someone offers you cake...."

    Banged up for what though?
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  11. Vonhelmet

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 28, 2005

    Posts: 48,109

    Location: On the hoods

    The tyranny of the majority indeed. Never mind that it's pointless imprisoning people if you don't rehabilitate them while they're in there and give them meaningful opportunities when they come out.

    It's also a ridiculous generalisation to claim that it's only young drug users who want to decriminalise drug use and only older law abiding folk who want to keep locking people up as nauseam.
     
  12. Billies Bangers

    Banned

    Joined: Sep 18, 2014

    Posts: 961

    Location: Planet Earth

    Whatever the offence they have been charged with as prescribed by Parliament.
     
  13. Billies Bangers

    Banned

    Joined: Sep 18, 2014

    Posts: 961

    Location: Planet Earth

    Firstly, we live in a democracy. I assume that accords with your beliefs? If democracy/the majority is a tyranny then it takes us back to brexit and the US election.

    Secondly, I said 'in the main' not that it was everyone in each demographic, nor did I refer to young drug users.
     
  14. Caged

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 23,236

    This is a circular argument then, drug use is illegal therefore people should be locked up for it. Why do your hypothetical latter group want drug users locked away, for reasons other than seeing themselves as enforcers of morals?
     
  15. Billies Bangers

    Banned

    Joined: Sep 18, 2014

    Posts: 961

    Location: Planet Earth


    As said much earlier drugs were legal in the UK at one point in time and it didn't work. So how do you square that circle.
     
  16. Caged

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 23,236

    Were the same treatment programmes available for addiction at that point in time? Let's not kid ourselves that because drugs are illegal it means people don't use them - they are just using them in an unsafe way and giving money to criminals.

    Again, what issues are drug users causing that means that a certain demographic are calling for them to be locked away?
     
  17. FrenchTart

    Man of Honour

    Joined: May 16, 2005

    Posts: 31,310

    Location: Manchester

    New thread for the drugs discussion please :)
     
  18. datalol-jack

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,178

    Shouldn't we start a Trump Presidency thread on top of the above? The election's done.
     
  19. Skunkworks

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 3, 2005

    Posts: 6,349

    How would that differ from this one?
     
  20. Caged

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 23,236

    Maybe have a thread for blind shock at Trump's actions up to the inauguration and then a general Uspol thread after that.
     
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