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Upgrade after 6 years (help me make the right choice or better it)

Discussion in 'New to PC gaming & upgrade advice' started by Snowball01, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. Snowball01

    Associate

    Joined: Sep 7, 2017

    Posts: 15

    Hi Folks,

    I like pre-built as I haven't the time due to long hours.

    Been quite a while since I bought my last computer (6 years) and time for an upgrade, going for a 4K gaming rig hopefully but just undecided. So filtered website by 4K gaming then price from low to high, as you would……

    1st one was below budget, 2nd also below but editable to include GTX1080Ti, couple of other upgrades too, see below.
    My basket at Overclockers UK:
    • 1 x Titan Aurora Overclocked RGB Gaming PC - Intel Core i5 6600K @ 4.5GHz = £2,059.94
      • CPU:Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz (Kaby Lake) Socket LGA1151 Processor - Retail
      • Memory:Team Group Dark Pro 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-24000C15 3000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black/Red (TDPRD416G30
      • Primary Solid State Drive:Samsung 960 EVO Polaris 250GB M.2 2280 PCI-e 3.0 x4 NVMe Solid State Drive
      • Secondary Solid State Drive:Unwanted
      • Storage Drive:Seagate BarraCuda 2TB 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache HDD - OEM (ST2000DM006)
      • Case:In-Win 805 Aluminium Midi-Tower Case - Red
      • Motherboard:Asus Z170-E Intel Z170 (Socket 1151) DDR4 ATX Motherboard
      • Operating System:Unwanted
      • Build Time:Standard Build Systems - Dispatched within 7 working days
      • Graphics Card:Asus GeForce GTX 1080Ti ROG Strix OC 11264MB GDDR5X PCI-Express Graphics Card
      • Security Software:Unwanted
    • 1 x Asus PB287Q 28" 3840x2160 TN 4K 60Hz 1MS Gaming Widescreen LED Monitor - Black= £428.99

    Total: £2,512.03
    (includes shipping: £23.10)


    [​IMG][​IMG]

    There is just something about the following that has caught my eye, it’s shiny and extremely high specked. Can I justify it, will I notice the difference, what would the difference be? Opinions/advice are welcome.

    It is however quite expensive and I am not sure I want to spend that amount of money though it would be going through the business (Computer Aided Design) so get my VAT back.

    Also need a 4K monitor.


    https://www.overclockers.co.uk/infi...-watercooled-extreme-gaming-pc-fs-453-oe.html
     
  2. mistersprinkles

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 21, 2016

    Posts: 1,141

    Location: Oh Canada!

    You simply don't need the horsepower of the second machine. The one you have the parts listed for @ 2512 will be fine for 4K 60Hz in any game you want to throw at it, I assure you.

    As far as CPU clocks go, it's not exactly difficult to overclock Intel CPUs from Sandybridge onwards, and there's not a lot you need to know. You could easily push that CPU into the high 4's yourself with a decent aftermarket heatsink. I see no use in paying a premium for pre-overclocked PCs. Sure, they may de-lid or bin their CPUs, but to me it's not worth it as you won't see a difference in gaming between a Kaby Lake i7 at 4.7 and 5+ Ghz. You just won't. Maybe 1 frame per second, but I doubt it.

    You don't need 2X 1080Ti's for 4K@60Hz, and even if you did (you don't), SLI/CFX support is dying. It's no coincidence that Nvidia now limits SLI to 2 cards where 4 used to be possible. There's simply no need for it with today's GPUs and game support is waning. Not worth it.

    A couple of "you should wait"s

    1) 8700K coming soon. 2 extra cores. Same price. Similar clocks (probably). End of October, they say.

    2) 144Hz Gsync 4K monitors are coming in 3-6 months. They will be absurdly costly, no doubt, but hey, 144Hz Gsync @ 4K.

    You're definitely not going to be pushing those 144 frames at 4K with a 1080Ti, so you might want to forget about the high spec monitor, but as far as the 6 core mainstream i7's go, I think they're worth waiting for.

    Also keep in mind that we can suggest a list of parts that may be better than prebuilts for you, and you can assemble these yourself or have OCUK do it for a reasonable fee.

    On a side note- if you are willing to come down from 4K to 2560X1440 you can run a G-sync monitor @ or near those 144FPS in pretty much any game (some games will have lower framerates on ultra) and you can get away with a GTX 1080 instead of a 1080Ti. There are currently no 144Hz Gsync 4K monitors, but there are a lot @ 1440P. They aren't much pricier than the monitor you were looking at.

    2+ times the framerate, or 2x the pixels... up to you.

    Finally I should mention AMD Ryzen.

    8 cores for the price of an intel 4 core (a bit less, actually). Downsides? Doesn't clock too high. high 4's/5Ghz is likely on a 4 core i7, while 3.9-4.1 Ghz is what you'd expect out of a Ryzen. This, combined with the lack of optimization for the architecture, means that Intel is still a bit faster for gaming. But hey, it's great value for money and I had to mention it.. though you don't seem like somebody who's on a shoe-string budget ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  3. Snowball01

    Associate

    Joined: Sep 7, 2017

    Posts: 15

    Wow that's a comprehensive reply which I appreciate.
    It deserves a comprehensive response. I'll do that tomorrow when I get more time.

    For now though your advice is to wait for the new Intel chip or go AMD. I think best to wait.

    Your reply does bring up some other questions which I will break down tomorrow when I have more time and a pc to write on rather than a phone.

    I'm not limited in budget but I don't want to spend more than I have to to get what I'm after. I like value for my money like most do and your advice is invaluable. I might go DIY

    Many thanks so far
    J
     
  4. mistersprinkles

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 21, 2016

    Posts: 1,141

    Location: Oh Canada!

    You're not going to get better gaming performance than an 8700K. You're best to wait. If you have more questions please quote this reply so that I get the notification. :)
     
  5. orbitalwalsh

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 1, 2015

    Posts: 2,686

    4 options.

    wait for 8700k as above ^^^^ seems leaked pricing will be £10-30 more expensive then current 7700k which is fair enough- intel never go cheaper and 4 extra threads.

    x299 and i7 7740k coverclocked to 5.4Ghz and 4000hz+ ram- if not not point in getting that platform - but is costly not not the best bang for the buck

    Ryzen 7 - no brainer why

    i7 7700k bundle deals to clear away older stock when coffee lake came out. 8 Pack did this with the z170 hero boards and 7700k and sold out fast- plus there was a rebate on by asus so something like £250 off at the time!
     
  6. Snowball01

    Associate

    Joined: Sep 7, 2017

    Posts: 15

    I had written a long reply but when I re-read it all it really said was that I was going to wait for the new processor and then get you guys to spec me a PC to get the best bang for buck.

    I would like the machine as quiet as possible, is a fully water cooled PC hard to build?

    People are guessing and only guessing between £1200-£2000. 3-6 months is too long to wait anyway so I'll see what is the best to put with what I end up with when the new cpu's come out.

    Thanks again for the reply. (reply's)
     
  7. Snowball01

    Associate

    Joined: Sep 7, 2017

    Posts: 15

    Thanks for the reply Orbital, I think I will wait based on advice here.

    I dunno didn't even give it a thought to be honest.
     
  8. mistersprinkles

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 21, 2016

    Posts: 1,141

    Location: Oh Canada!

    Don't bother with custom liquid cooling. It's not worth the money IMO. You can certainly go with a CLC AIO which is basically a ready to use liquid cooler. However, large air heatsinks offer similar performance such as the NHD15, though they are heavy, massive, and kind of ugly.

    There are several brands of prebuilt liquid coolers. I've never used them so I don't know which are best. You could ask in the OC/cooling section. Obviously you want to make sure the case you choose can accomodate one of these in the desired dimensions.

    Quietness comes down to the case you choose, whether it is designed for silence or not, the fans you choose, the speed you run them at, etc. There are fans and cases designed for near silence, and most of these have advanced to a point where performance penalties are minimal. Ask around in the cooling and case sections.

    I still think you should wait for the 8700K but I also don't think an overclocked Ryzen 1700 on a B350F Strix board is a bad choice.

    Also if you want to just burn some money there are the AMD Threadripper CPUs such as the 1950X which is 16 core/32 thread and allows for some intense multitasking. You totally don't need it, but it exists. Very pricey. If you want to overclock those you need some very serious cooling.

    Speaking of cooling, for either a 7700K or a 1700, you don't NEED liquid cooling. You can get away with a moderately sized air cooler such as an NH-U14S the fan for which is pretty quiet especially if you turn it down a bit. In a silent case you would never hear it. That's for overclocking, of course. @ stock you could get away with a 12 pound 50 pence Arctic Freezer 7 and run very cool. Or in the case of the 1700, the hideous, cheap, tiny stock cooler.
     
  9. lee32uk

    Underboss

    Joined: Nov 9, 2005

    Posts: 7,406

    Location: manchester,uk

    An R5 1600/X is going to perform much the same as a Ryzen R7 1700/X for gaming. If you are not doing any other stuff such as video editing/rendering or streaming etc then the 6 core cpu is better value.
     
  10. Snowball01

    Associate

    Joined: Sep 7, 2017

    Posts: 15

  11. lee32uk

    Underboss

    Joined: Nov 9, 2005

    Posts: 7,406

    Location: manchester,uk

    Here is an example of a Ryzen R7 1700 pre-build with a 1440p G-Sync monitor.

    You can ask customer services to change the cooler for something better if you want, and also change W10 to the USB version. Same goes if you wanted a different case.



    My basket at Overclockers UK:
    • 1 x OcUK Tech Labs AMD Ryzen Midi Tower Gaming PC Configurator = £1,750.90
      • Processor:AMD Ryzen 7 Eight Core 1700 3.70GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail
      • Motherboard:Asus Prime B350-Plus AMD B350 (Socket AM4) DDR4 ATX Motherboard
      • CPU Cooler:Alpenfohn Brocken ECO CPU Cooler - 120 mm
      • Mechanical Hard Drive 1:Seagate BarraCuda 2TB 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache HDD - OEM (ST2000DM006)
      • Mechanical Hard Drive 2:Unwanted
      • Optical Drive **Please Check Chassis Support**:Unwanted
      • Case Lighting:Unwanted
      • Operating System:Microsoft Windows 10 64-Bit DVD - OEM (MS-KW9-00139)
      • Build Time:Standard Build Systems - Dispatched within 7 working days
      • Memory:Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-24000C15 3000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (CMK16GX4M2B30
      • Case:CoolerMaster MasterBox 5 Midi Tower Case - Black
      • Power Supply:Bitfenix Whisper M Series 550W 80 Plus Gold Modular Power Supply
      • Keyboard:Unwanted
      • Mouse:Unwanted
      • Speakers:Unwanted
      • Monitor:Unwanted
      • Gaming Chair:Unwanted
      • Soundcard:Unwanted
      • Network Adapter:Unwanted
      • Security Software:Unwanted
      • Headset:Unwanted
      • M.2 Solid State Drive **For Operating System If Selected**:Samsung 960 EVO Polaris 250GB M.2 2280 PCI-e 3.0 x4 NVMe Solid State Drive
      • Solid State Drive 1:Unwanted
      • Solid State Drive 2:Unwanted
      • Graphics Card palit Geforce GTX 1080Ti Jetstream 11264MB GDDR5X PCI-Express Graphics Card
    • 1 x AOC AGON AG271QG 27" 2560 x 1440 IPS G-Sync 165Hz Gaming Widescreen LED Monitor - Black/Red= £689.99

    Total: £2,463.99
    (includes shipping: £23.10)


    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  12. lee32uk

    Underboss

    Joined: Nov 9, 2005

    Posts: 7,406

    Location: manchester,uk

  13. Quartz

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 4,415

    Location: Aberdeen

    If you're going for 4K, get a GSync monitor to go with your 1080 Ti.
     
  14. mistersprinkles

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 21, 2016

    Posts: 1,141

    Location: Oh Canada!

    I used to have that CPU and that graphics card :). Both were very good in their day. Now they are very obsolete.
     
  15. Snowball01

    Associate

    Joined: Sep 7, 2017

    Posts: 15

    Yeah they where and they are now ;), I am really looking forward to getting something up to date. I though posting what I have at the moment would put things in more perspective :)

    I'm getting close to the big 50, have no dependents (so no birthday presents except socks) and a very well paid job, I can treat myself with this upgrade. I'm restricted by speed (by law) in my car so don't drive a Porsche (no need) but I'm not restricted with a PC (well I am but I hope you know what I mean) I do want the best of whats to offer for what I do need/want, something that lasts. It's getting hard to resist and wait.

    What's important to me is in no particular order.

    Boot speed
    Ultra Quiet
    Best Graphics I can get so happy enough paying for GTX 1080ti Not had time to look at matching a monitor.
    Half decent multi-tasking capability
    Some HD video editing.
    Computer Aided Design capability (multiple operating systems) <<<<My Job. Don't do rendering
    I like making copies of my Blu-Ray collection.
    4K system, Rise of the Tomb Raider for example.

    Sorry that reply was a bit rushed over coffee break.
     
  16. orbitalwalsh

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 1, 2015

    Posts: 2,686

    shame, OC Black has gone up in price from £670 to 709. would of been a good saving for yourself

    considered the Limited edition Pro 900 case in white? as their company name states- bequiet! is quiet haha

    Not a lot being made, so since your treating yourself, might as well be different and limited lol

    My basket at Overclockers UK:

    Total: £261.65
    (includes shipping: £11.70)


    [​IMG]

    and as every one pointed out , ryzen 7 unless you feel bold with your wallet and i7 8700k next month haha
     
  17. Quartz

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 4,415

    Location: Aberdeen

    On older games he'll be getting more than 60 fps, sometimes much more, so a high-refresh 4k monitor is a good idea.
     
  18. mistersprinkles

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 21, 2016

    Posts: 1,141

    Location: Oh Canada!

    How good is the CAD with scaling across multiple threads? How intensive is your video editing? It sounds like you might actually benefit from Ryzen or even threadripper if you want all out multitasking ability.
    Threadripper offers 8, 12, or 16 cores. Ryzen offers 4/6/8, i7 offers 4 (soon to be 6) and the high end i7/i9 goes much higher than that but they suck for heat and power consumption compared to AMD and they are overpriced, as is all Intel kit.
     
  19. Snowball01

    Associate

    Joined: Sep 7, 2017

    Posts: 15

    This is outside my realms of understanding computing, Normally as I am sure you are aware for CAD (CATIA V5-V6) you would use a dedicated Workstation for instance my workplace one is powered by.
    INtel Xeon E5-1660 @3Ghz 8 Cores
    Nvidia Quadro K4200
    32GB Ram

    This is just what I am supplied with.

    I want something "compatible" with Catia (current PC runs V5 all be it on piece parts not full on assemblies just about) that I will be able to use from home.

    Just home videos, would be nice to do it with some speed without having to go for a pint while it processes.

    Thanks for the questions..........

    Why am I so seemingly stuck on Intel.......I don't know........Is it just the numbers +Ghz (rehtorical)
     
  20. mistersprinkles

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 21, 2016

    Posts: 1,141

    Location: Oh Canada!

    Ya you might want to consider a 12 or 16 core threadripper. That workstation you have at work has 16 threads. If you buy a mainstream i7 now, you'll get 8 threads, and if you buy one at the end of October you'll get one with 12 threads. Threadripper offers up to 32 threads at prices that destroy Intel equivalents, and lower power draw too.

    I'm just not sure a 6 core i7 is going to cut it for you. Certainly it'll be better than your current i7, but with the kind of work you do you could get so much more performance.

    If you mostly gamed and farted around in CAD on the side, then ya get the i7... but if you do it for your actual career... not so sure.
     


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