[USA guns ahoy] Bill Proposed That Will Allow Teachers To Carry Guns In Schools

Soldato
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So do the teachers wear a holster? Are they locked and loaded so to speak? If not is it stored in a cabinet under lock and key? Where is the key kept? This is almost definitely is a solid plan. Well done America. **** yeah!
 
Caporegime
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Please go watch Jim Jefferies on gun control, he makes a very valid point on this exact topic. I can't link because he swears like a trooper but it's on the 'tube.
 
Soldato
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I think the reality is that in America they have the right to own guns, they do not wish that right to be infringed. They also have a problem where mentally ill or deranged people get hold of guns and target places like schools because it's basically a soft target. Without infringing the right to bear arms, turning a soft target into a harder target is probably the solution they're left with. Guns can be kept responsibly and there's already clearly a risk to students and teachers from guns anyway. There's no magic wand you can wave to uninvent guns or stop them being taken into schools and used on innocent people, you can only look at the situation pragmatically and work with the constraints you have.
 
Soldato
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They try to push this every time there is a school shooting. I'm not sure if they were fake but I have seen signs on schools on reddit saying that they are conceal carry schools so it might have already passed in some states.
 
Soldato
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26 Gun murders in England vs. 11,004 in the US annually (2017).

This doesn't include gun suicides in the US which pushes up the number by quite a bit. Suicides in the US in 2015: 44,193

There have been 1,516 mass shootings in 1,735 days in the United States. You’ll note you don’t hear about mass shootings in Australia, Japan or for the most part the United Kingdom, or other civilized countries whose politicians have not been bought by 10 major gun manufacturers.

The right to bare arms is basically the right to kill anyone. I'm so glad I live in the UK and don't need to worry about being shot after getting into an argument with someone about the price of baked beans.

Source = https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/10/03/26-gun-murders-equiv-130-england-vs-11004-us-annually
 
Soldato
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There's no magic wand you can wave to uninvent guns or stop them being taken into schools and used on innocent people

the uk hasn't had a school shooting since 1996, i'd say our gun laws are a pretty decent magic wand right there.

just to re-iterate that, uk hasn't had a big school shooting for 22 years

america hasn't had a big school shooting for a week
 
Soldato
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the uk hasn't had a school shooting since 1996, i'd say our gun laws are a pretty decent magic wand right there.

The UK and USA aren't the same place. They have the constitutional right to bear arms, you can sit and quote stats and call them idiots till the cows come home, that won't change. Period. You have to work inside the confines of what they can realistically change to lower the risk of school shootings. You are being willfully ignorant of American culture if you think they will all hand their guns in, there's millions of them who would rather die than do that. So it's not a practical solution.
 

JRS

JRS

Soldato
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Thought this was quite good:

Paul Musgrave @profmusgrave on Twitter said:
Which teachers get guns? Where will the guns be stored? Who decides when guns can be brandished? What penalties will apply if teachers mishandle a weapon? Will teachers volunteer for gun duty? Can teachers refuse it? Who will audit their adherence to regulations?

Will students know which teachers have weapons? Who will be liable if the teacher with the gun becomes the shooter? What will be the consequences when students are accidentally shot by a teacher? How will armed teachers communicate in a tactical situation?

Will teachers with a history of mental illness be allowed to use weapons? Will teachers be required to disclose any history of mental illness? Will teachers be issued a weapon? Reimbursed for purchase? For ammunition?

How will administrators conduct non-weapon-related discipline against a teacher? Will there be armed assistance available to deter workplace shootings? Who will shepherd the armed teacher’s classroom while the teacher is attempting to locate the active shooter?

What happens when a teacher misidentifies a student as a threat in good faith? Will teachers who do not carry lethal weapons be offered non lethal alternatives? If an armed teacher is shot, can another teacher employ his or her weapon?

How will armed teachers identify themselves to arriving first responders? Will armed teachers be required to learn how to give first-response medicine? Will armed teachers be required to attempt an arrest before using lethal force? Under what circumstances?

Will proficiency training on weapons count for teachers’ continuing education and professional development? How will insurers adjust health and other rates to account for the presence of armed employees? Will teachers receive additional pay for being armed?

How often will armed teachers be re-evaluated for licensing purposes? Will armed teachers leading field trips deposit their weapons in a personally owned vehicle or school-owned transport? Will one teacher per wing of a school building receive weapons? Two? Three?

Exactly which standards will count for proficiency—greater than a big-city police department, State Police, FBI, hobbyist, marksman? In training scenarios, how will using force against innocents be penalized? Will racial sensitivity courses be required?

Do parents have a right to refuse to send their kids to schools with guns? Will students have to sign waivers? Will parents? What if a parent signs a waiver for a minor student who, when that student turns 18, refuses to abide by its provisions?

Will teachers on probation be allowed to carry weapons? What about teachers with active union grievances? Complaints about sexual harassment? Anger management? Divorce proceedings?

Will armed teachers wear holsters? Will they be stationed strategically during pep rallies or other gatherings? Will they participate in lockdown drills as if they were armed or unarmed?

Will funding for the policies outlined above be distributed according to local budgets, statewide formulas, or national formulas? Will schools in high-risk neighborhoods receive more or less funding? Suburban schools?

What is the right ratio of armed:unarmed teachers by grade level? What is the procedure for debriefing and assessing armed teachers’ performance during a crisis? Can an armed teacher who flinches be fired? Can an armed teacher who breaks protocol be rewarded?

Will preschool teachers have guns? Will teachers in “juvie” (high risk) schools have guns? Will the teacher or the school be liable if their gun is stolen? Can administrators carry weapons? Can they do so in disciplinary situations?

For the more ‘sophisticated’ respondents, the point is not that these questions *can’t* be answered, but that the answers make clear exactly what kind of a society you want to live in — one that resembles an armed camp monitored by quasi-military figures at all time.

Emphasis is my own at the end there.
 
Associate
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Realistically they can stop with all the gun love, but of course thats not realistic is it?

Arm all the kids with 500 S&Ws carrying the big 700 grain tRex rounds, problem solved as it will blow the whole school away in one shot.
 
Soldato
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The UK and USA aren't the same place. They have the constitutional right to bear arms, you can sit and quote stats and call them idiots till the cows come home, that won't change. Period. You have to work inside the confines of what they can realistically change to lower the risk of school shootings. You are being willfully ignorant of American culture if you think they will all hand their guns in, there's millions of them who would rather die than do that. So it's not a practical solution.

realistically change?

the american gun law has already established that controls on weapons are legal and possible in the united states, in the 1920's you could mail order a thompson submachine gun from a catalogue, but thanks to gun regulations you can't do the same today (but you can still legally own a machine gun)

so fully automatic weapons are perfectly fine to restrict, as are "short barreled rifles", even gun accessories like suppressors are subject to extra restriction.

so precisely what's stopping them from doing the same thing they've done before to other classifications of weapons? it doesn't have to be unconstitutional, the "right to bear arms" doesn't say anything about how much paperwork you have to do, or how long you have to wait, before being allowed to obtain your firearm.

semi automatic firearms didn't exist when the constitution was written, neither were fully automatic firearms, so how come it's ok to regulate one but not the other? you can still keep bolt action rifles as free sales which is still more firepower than the writers of the constitution would have known.

and you're right, the uk and the usa aren't the same place. like most of the western world the uk has the sense to implement the laws necessary to protect its citizens.
 
Soldato
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27 Dec 2009
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10,573
The UK and USA aren't the same place. They have the constitutional right to bear arms, you can sit and quote stats and call them idiots till the cows come home, that won't change. Period. You have to work inside the confines of what they can realistically change to lower the risk of school shootings. You are being willfully ignorant of American culture if you think they will all hand their guns in, there's millions of them who would rather die than do that. So it's not a practical solution.

They just need to make a small amendment by underlining the organised militia bit. If they don't want to go as far as restricting guns to black powder muzzle loaders, they could at least get rid of the high capacity rapid fire weapons that ordinary citizens simply don't need. If you don't have a criminal record or serious mental health issues and are prepared to join and abide by the safety rules of your organised militia? Then maybe you can own a bolt action hunting rifle, double barrelled shotgun, six shot revolver or similar. You want an assault rifle, Glock automatic with a 31 bullet magazine, semi auto shotgun with a 100 round drum? Then just no.
 
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Soldato
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realistically change?

the american gun law has already established that controls on weapons are legal and possible in the united states, in the 1920's you could mail order a thompson submachine gun from a catalogue, but thanks to gun regulations you can't do the same today (but you can still legally own a machine gun)

so fully automatic weapons are perfectly fine to restrict, as are "short barreled rifles", even gun accessories like suppressors are subject to extra restriction.

so precisely what's stopping them from doing the same thing they've done before to other classifications of weapons? it doesn't have to be unconstitutional, the "right to bear arms" doesn't say anything about how much paperwork you have to do, or how long you have to wait, before being allowed to obtain your firearm.

semi automatic firearms didn't exist when the constitution was written, neither were fully automatic firearms, so how come it's ok to regulate one but not the other? you can still keep bolt action rifles as free sales which is still more firepower than the writers of the constitution would have known.

and you're right, the uk and the usa aren't the same place. like most of the western world the uk has the sense to implement the laws necessary to protect its citizens.

The desire doesn't exist from the population for those changes. I have said several times that they do not want to change the laws, there isn't millions of people outside of the White House protesting for gun changes, they aren't voting for pro-gun control candidates on mass. The President is a Republican for Gods sake. In the UK we may look at it and feel changes are sensible or warranted, they ultimately don't. They know how many people get shot each year, a lot of them own guns, like guns, collect guns, enjoy shooting responsibly, donate to the NRA, they're quite happy with that. I don't know why people don't understand that.
 
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