Vauxhall Vectra ST200

[naefeart]

And I would like to see someone who hasn't driven anything that special (i.e. M3, Evo, Type R etc etc) to say that the Vectra GSI is crap. It may not be the best but I don't see how people can say they are that bad a drive.

Well I've owned two of the three 'special' motors you mention and I really didn't think the vectra GSi was all that bad.


PS Can I just mention that all the GSIs where standard V6 SRis that were taken from vauxhall and then refitted at MSD's premises, just like the ST200.

 

[Prophet]

Firstly I can't really be bothered to talk about the ST200 Vectra as they made what, 200? Most of which kevin has crashed into a wall, so we'll deal with the GSi.

Ford responded to the Vectra GSi with the Mondeo ST200 a couple of months after the GSi was launched. I'm sorry, but there is no way you can call the Vectra GSi amazing yet the Mondeo ST200 'a bland mondeo of the day'.

Sure there were bland Mondeos in the range - there are bland variants in every cars range - the bread and better LX's and so forth, but then, these cars existed in even blander form in the Vectra range also.

ST24 > Vectra SRi
ST200 > Vectra GSi.

Technically incorrect.

The ST200 was actually based on the SRI model then 'upgraded' to the ST spec, that similar to the GSI.

There are a couple of versions of the ST200. One was a 2.0 16v or 2.6 V6 having 500 made. The second version was a higher spec limited edition. Only 38 were made in total.

Of the 38 that were made a few have been crashed/written off etc however several remain. The prototype of these is owned by a friend and carries the number 0000. Is actually quite different to the others as it was the first car Vauxhall used so doesnt have some of the extras the later ones did. Saying that it does have a higher level of suspension and engine tweaking as it was their flagship and needed the extra bang for all the press releases etc.

If the car in the OP link was one of the 500 made its not really 'that' special however if its one of the 38 then it does carry a kind of 'wow' factor (even for a Vauxhall)

The 0000 car is currently up for sale at £7000 with loads of interest, others (in the 38 run) go for about 5-6K while the 500 run fetch anything from 2K upwards.

Personally speaking I love the look of the ST200 Vectra but hold no special loyalties to it. I drive a 05 Zetec Mondeo 130 TD which I love, however I do own a couple of MK2 Astra's and a B Reg XR2. So please don't think this is a Vauxhall Fanboy post

 

[Richard_16v]

Technically incorrect.

The ST200 was actually based on the SRI model then 'upgraded' to the ST spec, that similar to the GSI.

There are a couple of versions of the ST200. One was a 2.0 16v or 2.6 V6 having 500 made. The second version was a higher spec limited edition. Only 38 were made in total.

I thought that the Supertouring came in 2.0 and 2.5 and the SuperTouring 200 came in 2.5 only, they were all white apart from a few red and a few black (and apparantly 1 estate), I think Clelland and Warrick were given one of the coloured ones when they drove for the Vauxhall touring car team.

The GSI I sold was a 2.6 and i'm sure they only started making the 2.6 versions in 2000/2001 and was limited to 500.

 

[Liverpool-Lad]

I don't understand how you've got the impression i'm talking about the current mondeo?

I'm talking about the Mk1 / Mk2 like i said in my previous post we looked hard at this sector in 1998 when we got our primera, the Mondeo was the top of the bunch for most things handeling included.

My corsa comment was to highlight a point, yes you can give a car to a good tuning house / performance car maker but that don't automatically turn the car from a bad one into an amazing machine, the corsa is proof of this.

FYI Lotus were given the car after it was made and made changes to damper and spring rates to improve matters - they had nothing to do with the design of the chassis; they had to work with what was already there.

 

[Dublove]

Who saw the top gear episode with this new vectra vxr (i think thats right). The one that clarkson called dangerous with its incredible understeer???

 

[Prophet]

I thought that the Supertouring came in 2.0 and 2.5 and the SuperTouring 200 came in 2.5 only, they were all white apart from a few red and a few black (and apparantly 1 estate), I think Clelland and Warrick were given one of the coloured ones when they drove for the Vauxhall touring car team.

The GSI I sold was a 2.6 and i'm sure they only started making the 2.6 versions in 2000/2001 and was limited to 500.

In all honesty mate I could be wrong. There are that many 2.5/6 versions I sometimes confuse myself!

Some interesting faq's from another site...

No. 001 was white, the reason the car with the 001 plaque is black is its actually no7, the supplying dealer swapped the plaques around.

500 supertourers all white - nope not true, all ST200's were initially just ST's before being converted, therefore not all ST's were white

ST3000's, one was red, one black and one silver, the silver one was written off, the black one is still around, and the red one still belongs to Thurlby motors who comissioned the ST3000;s the car was also stolen and then recovered earlier this year.

Red ST200's - there were also atleast 2 red ST200's.

The 1st 10 ST200's also run lower suspension than the later cars. It was changed due to them being too low.

Blu ST200 estate - Thurlby motors also commissioned an estate car to go through the full ST200 conversion (at the time there wa a seperte brochure where by owners of other Vectra's could send their cars to MSD to have specific components of the ST200 upgrade fitted, the estate car had everything done.

 

[Prophet]

Who saw the top gear episode with this new vectra vxr (i think thats right). The one that clarkson called dangerous with its incredible understeer???

I like Clarkson generally, well until he has to write about a Vauxhall. The Vectra is nowhere near as bad as he made out, just like the Astra VXR they tested. Oh they didnt mention they had 2 cars to test and the one on the track wasnt a true VXR. It was missing numerous VXR tweaks, including the VXR suspension!

Sorry back on topic

 

[Liverpool-Lad]

Who saw the top gear episode with this new vectra vxr (i think thats right). The one that clarkson called dangerous with its incredible understeer???

I did see it and with full lock on and your foot to the floor itd probably happen on most FWD high powered cars.

 

[ironman]

One thing I will say about the Vectra is that the old GSi looks great. You know its no ordinary Vectra.

But the current GSi? Considering before they had to launch a VXR it was considered their attempt at beating the ST220 it just... looks like a Vectra..

Unfortunately both the new 'top end' Mondeos and Vectras look nothing special compared to the the rest of the range, VXR not included.

 

[Fireblade2K4]

Considering before they had to launch a VXR it was considered their attempt at beating the ST220 it just... looks like a Vectra..

ST220 my next car

Stu

 

[Demon]

Who saw the top gear episode with this new vectra vxr (i think thats right). The one that clarkson called dangerous with its incredible understeer???

The funny thing is, the exact same car Clarkson drove (Same reg) was the one EVO Mag used in their Impreza STi/ EVO FQ320 / BMW330Ci / Vectra VXR shootout, and apparantly they where nothing short of impressed with the Vectra.. On real roads against real sports cars 'through the twisties', how odd! They even managed a respectable track time..

The truth is, that although the Mondeo model for model does handle slightly better, the difference is just not as large as the sensationalists make out.. sure if you jump in a Veccie LS and then a Mondeo Zetec S the Mondeo feels like a supercar, but jump in a Mondeo LX and then in a Vectra SRi the veccie dare I say it would feel sporty..


But then VX still receive an awful lot of critcism for their chassis' and handling, despite
1. Astra VXR whips a Focus ST around the track on every test that has been done. Yet the instant someone specs a hot hatch the VXR is slated in the forums as being no good in the twisties.
2. Vectra VXR is splitting the EVO FQ320 and Impreza STI on tight/twisty b-roads in EVO magazine, yet people seem to think that it's light years behind a Mondeo..
3. Zafira VXR whips S-Max around the track..

 

[JRS]

2. Vectra VXR is splitting the EVO FQ320 and Impreza STI on tight/twisty b-roads in EVO magazine, yet people seem to think that it's light years behind a Mondeo..

And you honestly believe than a completely over-powered front-drive car is inbetween an Evo and an Impreza on the handling and grip front? C'mon....I thought that people on here were a bit wiser to that kind of nonsense.

Just to spell it out in simple language here:

The Vectra VXR handles like a 3 hour old deer. It is fine in a straight line, and will move along at a bloody good chat on a motorway, but show it a corner and it will understeer. It can't help it - it's a Vectra, and it's front-wheel-drive. It's like asking Jonah Lomu to do some ballet dancing - not really all that suited to the task. It's not got even remotely enough in the way of trickiness in the chassis to keep up with the Jap boys in the twisty bits.

The Mazda that Top Gear tested at the same time had 4WD - and was faster, despite being a little down on power to it.

 

[Mr Joshua]

The Vectra VXR handles like a 3 hour old deer. It is fine in a straight line, and will move along at a bloody good chat on a motorway, but show it a corner and it will understeer. It can't help it - it's a Vectra, and it's front-wheel-drive. It's like asking Jonah Lomu to do some ballet dancing - not really all that suited to the task. It's not got even remotely enough in the way of trickiness in the chassis to keep up with the Jap boys in the twisty bits.

That's interesting, do you own or have you test driven one?
I've not seen the interior, how would you rate it?

 

[willd58]

Im just coming into this thread here to say, its pretty obviouse who have real opinions on this forum and actual experiance with a variety of cars. Its also blindingly clear who have just had the experiance of there parents cars (without actually having driven many other cars at all, let alone extensively) and want to kid themselves that there the most fantastical magical cars on the road.

 

[Scrutinize]

Im just coming into this thread here to say, its pretty obviouse who have real opinions on this forum and actual experiance with a variety of cars. Its also blindingly clear who have just had the experiance of there parents cars (without actually having driven many other cars at all, let alone extensively) and want to kid themselves that there the most fantastical magical cars on the road.

Quoted for the truth.

 

[Demon]

And you honestly believe than a completely over-powered front-drive car is inbetween an Evo and an Impreza on the handling and grip front? C'mon....I thought that people on here were a bit wiser to that kind of nonsense.

I thought people on here where wise enough to realise that in the dry normal roads, 4wd is not a real asset..

Seriously, I'm inclined to believe EVO, AFAIK they are not reknown for making things up or sensationalising?? or are they??

Here's a few quotes.

The VXR really delivers, It's an exploitable, composed and exciting car to hustle

I can't shake the car behind either, but as with the Evo ahead, the gap back to the impreza is constant. On wicked roads, littered with sump scars from unseen undulations and always throwing up nasty surprises - the kind of roads tailor-made for cars like the Mitsubishi and Subaru - an interloper is matching every move. Incredibly - No scrub that - shockingly that car has a Vauxhall badge on its nose. The vectra VXR is splitting the two hardest, most outrageous rally wannabes right down the middle. And despite significant horsepower advantages, not to mention the benefit of two extra driven wheels, there's nothing they can do about it

and on track

The vectra responds best to tidy, more contained laps, it's far from thrilling, but it achieves a Cadillac CTS-V beating 1.31.55 lap

Now 1.31.55 is quicker then a Golf R32, Nissan 350Z (Damp track) etc.. the usual hot hatches are down in the 1:33's

It's odd how a lot of people that had a Vectra GSI that have had beemers/mondeo's as well are all saying that the sportier Vectra's are actually quite competant and OK.. yet it seems the people that have never ever driven one seem to come out with ridiculous sensationalistic comments like "It handles like a 3 hour old deer",

I have to say that I come accross people with probably the same attitude when I am driving my old Veccie sheddy diesel, I sometimes come down the A48 from Gloucester to Chepstow, and it's quite a fast road, I drive down it fairly quickly and I do get a lot of Mondeo's/Focus/BMW's who when I approach start to speed up obviously not wanting to be passed by a crappy handling veccie, they keep speeding up until they are clearly at their (not the cars) limits, yet I am still there waiting for them to let me by.. I have to say that they don't seem best pleased when they do yield and let me by..
Now on a track with the Stig my car wouldn't stand a chance, but driven at 80/90% the softer setup is enough to make the car not react to sudden bumps etc, so I can keep the power on and have enough feel to keep up a high average speed, the grip level is actually fairly OK, the car's I'm following may have much better suspension/chassis/handling, but then when they hit bumps mid bend you can see their car's move a little, and they back off..

It always seems a bit David and Goliath to me and I enjoy being the total underdog..

I would abmit that when I first had a road bike (RG125) and was young/naive, I had a bit of a "My bikes one of the best handling around" attitude, until someone on a 80cc Kawasaki knacker put me in my place good and proper, that day I learnt a valuable lesson.. which I forgot when I had my RS Turbo which again I thought was pretty sorted at the time, only to have an MG Maestro (non-turbo) full up leave me again down the lanes, my mates where ragging me for weeks.. I've never ever underestimated or assumed any car is crap since..

 

[JRS]

I thought people on here where wise enough to realise that in the dry normal roads, 4wd is not a real asset..

Did you? Guess you'd be right for the most part then - my comment wasn't really centred around which wheels were driven, but it wasn't clear and I apologise My point should have been that the two cars around the Vectra in EVO's eyes - the Mitsubishi Evo and Subaru Impreza - were designed from the ground up to be cross-country mile munchers, where the Vectra was designed as a motorway cruiser then adapted into a more sport variant. And I'm sorry, but I don't believe for one second that with the same driver the Evo and Impreza wouldn't just school the Vectra.

Oh, and by the way - what are you defining as "normal roads"? Normal roads here? Normal roads worldwide? And what's a normal road here? As for the "dry" bit - I don't know if you'd noticed, but it does occasionally rain - and if a car is completely hopeless whenever the ground gets damp then there is a problem.

yet it seems the people that have never ever driven one seem to come out with ridiculous sensationalistic comments like "It handles like a 3 hour old deer"

Interesting that you know so much about me....can't say as I'm certain that I know that much about you. For the record - I know a little about chassis design, on acccount of having made it my work for the past few years while I've been getting a qualification in MotorSport engineering at university. Having crawled over a huge amount of cars over the years, I can tell you that the Vectra is never going to be a great car when pressing through corners unless you get it exactly right - as in, right road, right conditions, right setup (camber, castor, ride height, bump and rebound stiffness, a/r bar stiffness etc). Much as I hate them, at least cars like the Impreza can mask some of their defficiencies on bad roads in bad conditions. Show a Vectra VXR a smooth, dry road with sweeping corners and it will be epic. Show it a wet, bumpy, tight corner and you would hate it. Show the same corner to an Evo, and it would run on through without any fuss.

Now on a track with the Stig my car wouldn't stand a chance

So you admit that in the hands of a keen driver the Vectra wouldn't be all that good? Great, I've been trying to get various Vectra drivers to admit that for years!

but driven at 80/90% the softer setup is enough to make the car not react to sudden bumps etc, so I can keep the power on and have enough feel to keep up a high average speed, the grip level is actually fairly OK, the car's I'm following may have much better suspension/chassis/handling, but then when they hit bumps mid bend you can see their car's move a little, and they back off..

Softer setups have more initial grip, but do tend to pitch and roll far too much when pressing on which in a front-drive car means Understeer City usually.

I'm interested by this bit - "OK, the car's I'm following may have much better suspension/chassis/handling, but then when they hit bumps mid bend you can see their car's move a little, and they back off". Are you saying that cars with better suspension, better chassis setups, better handling are slower than yours? Or are you saying that you've seen the drivers of cars with these qualities back off before you would? Because there's a world of difference there! I back off later in my Seicento than a friend does in his BMW 330 - is the 330 a better car than the Seicento? No. Am I a better driver than he is? No. I'm just stupid enough to leave my foot in it a little while longer.

It always seems a bit David and Goliath to me and I enjoy being the total underdog..

Again, you admit to being the underdog? You're a bigger man than most of the Vectra zealots I've never come across.

I would abmit that when I first had a road bike (RG125) and was young/naive, I had a bit of a "My bikes one of the best handling around" attitude, until someone on a 80cc Kawasaki knacker put me in my place good and proper, that day I learnt a valuable lesson.. which I forgot when I had my RS Turbo which again I thought was pretty sorted at the time, only to have an MG Maestro (non-turbo) full up leave me again down the lanes, my mates where ragging me for weeks.. I've never ever underestimated or assumed any car is crap since..

There is a difference between saying a Vectra is crap just for the hell of it. and saying a Vectra is crap from experience. Feel free to make a completely uninformed statement about how I've never driven a Vectra at full chat, and don't know what I'm talking about. I could do with a good laugh today.

 

[Demon]

Did you? Guess you'd be right for the most part then - my comment wasn't really centred <snip>

I'd just like to state the obvious here, I do not think the VXR in anyway could remotely come close to an EVO/STi on any damp/loose surface, however, I have used EVO's article just to illustrate that as FWD cars go, the VXR is not inept..

It seems that you are directly arguing against EVO magazine's article not with myself, they actually pitted the cars with reasonable experienced drivers against each other on a selection of UK roads, including the very bumpy ones they mentioned in the article. They seemed to think the Vectra was very composed over the rough stuff, and from the rest of the article seem to think that as FWD cars go, the VXR is very good. There words not mine.. I don't mind if you want to call them liars, or tell me that they have no real experience/skill compared to yourself that makes your opinion more valid, this would explain why they must have been so far off the ball?

To save arguing over EVO magazine, my statement is this

The Vectra GSi and VXR are 'reasonably' competent FWD cars and pretty close to the Mondeo equivalents, and more specifically the VXR is nowhere near as bad as people make out, I have offered some 'research' in the form of EVO Magazine ( A magazine I reasonably trust) that shows that on dry roads, with experienced drivers, the VXR as a FWD car is capable of keeping up with the EVO FQ320/Impreza STI and BMW 330Ci, this is an indicator of it's competance. I fully understand the conditions underwhich the 4wd cars excel, and as such know the FWD would suffer horribly in the same conditions.

Instead of sensationalistic statements, lets get down to the facts..

 

[[TW]Fox]

Facts like 'Evo magazine tested the VXR alongside a BMW 330Ci'?

Becuase IIRC, they did not..

 

[Demon]

Facts like 'Evo magazine tested the VXR alongside a BMW 330Ci'?

Becuase IIRC, they did not..

<goes and checks EVO Mag> OK smart arse it was a new shape 330i M Sport