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Visa Debit Card

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by something daft already!!, 28 Nov 2021.

  1. englishpremier

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 15 Feb 2003

    Posts: 9,003

    Location: Europe

    Don't forget about Maestro too.

    In fact you'll find that in some places in Germany but particularly Netherlands and its territories, they won't accept Visa and Mastercard, only Maestro. Was real pain during my time in Bonaire.
     
  2. b0rn2sk8

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 9 Mar 2003

    Posts: 9,778

    Maestro is the MasterCard version of Visa Electron, it’s basically a card for people with poor or no credit easing ability (e.g. kids and people will debts).
     
  3. mattyfez

    Capodecina

    Joined: 12 Apr 2007

    Posts: 10,102

    I don't think the embossed thing has actually really been used for yonks, due to the chip. I think it was only usefull for when the mag-strip got worn or corrupted. I suppose it makes the cards slighlty cheaper to manufacture too.

    Mine is still embossed though, issued less than 12 month ago.

    My mate has a debit card and it's not even contactless. I guess he must be an untrustworthy wrong 'un. ;-)
     
  4. Monkeynut

    Soldato

    Joined: 7 Nov 2007

    Posts: 6,640

    Location: Unknown

    It's a bit bizarre how, despite high fees, these two companies basically have a duopoly? American Express is different because it's more of an "Exclusive club" card than a day to day card for most people. Just can't see how they manage to dominate the system. Surely some banks could club together and knock them out with a cheaper alternative?
     
  5. Haggisman

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 15,052

    Location: Birmingham

    You can, I actually had to use mine the other day when my chip wouldn't read for some reason
     
  6. Diddums

    Capodecina

    Joined: 24 Oct 2012

    Posts: 21,485

    Location: London


    Exactly, when we were in Vegas last (2018) they still used the magnetic strip a lot.
     
  7. b0rn2sk8

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 9 Mar 2003

    Posts: 9,778

    Why? I have an Amex, I use it anywhere that will take it as my primary spending card. Amex then give me money back for privilege.
     
  8. englishpremier

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 15 Feb 2003

    Posts: 9,003

    Location: Europe

    Well it would probably need different banks than those that were partners of Visa and Mastercard.

    The EU is trying to create its own due to in part lack of trust and reliance on the US, but predictably banks/companies don't want to invest it.

    Amex isn't an exclusive club. It charges higher fee for processing payment hence isn't anywhere near as widely accepted, and can incur additional charges when it is used.
     
  9. Monkeynut

    Soldato

    Joined: 7 Nov 2007

    Posts: 6,640

    Location: Unknown


    I worded that badly, what I mean is Amex is associated with paid bank accounts with premium features, and is less widely used. Hence "exclusive" in the sense of they are marketing only to middle class and above whereas Visa/Mastercard market across all sectors.
     
  10. b0rn2sk8

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 9 Mar 2003

    Posts: 9,778

    You can get fee free Amex cards, sure the rewards are lower but they are still better than any MasterCard on the market.
     
  11. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 5 Dec 2003

    Posts: 20,112

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    Better security, obviously. An on demand broadcast system that can be undetectably read by any suitable scanner over a significant range is a security weakness. You regard that constant reduction in security as a worthwhile price for saving maybe 20 seconds when you buy something. Some people draw the security/convenience line differently.
     
  12. mrk

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 89,437

    Location: South Coast

    Is there any direct study and citation for this to be an accurate statement though? I work in technology and have done since 2006 and for 8 years dealt with direct retail card machines (buying then, installing then, assigning them etc) within the ferry industry, so an area where scammed cards you'd think would be rife but this was not the case at all and in all examples of card fraud they were of cards being physically stolen and used rather than contactless being exploited.

    A physical card's contactless range is so small that it would be impossible for a card to be "read" by a drive-by scanner anyway unless someone puts their card in a shirt pocket or trouser pocket and lets someone with a reader brush past them at such a close distance that you literally have to be blind to not see them, and they'd also need to know you have the card in the pocket on its own otherwise it's not even worth attempting.

    Likewise mobile phone contactless is even more secure, you cannot make a contactless payment without unlocking the device first. The exception is if you set up a Transport Card function to a particular card so then card swipe through tube stations etc without even waking the screen. But this only works for transport card readers and your phone has to be stolen...

    This excuse of reduced security is a total non issue blown out of proportion for a short period of time which people seem to still latch onto.
     
  13. b0rn2sk8

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 9 Mar 2003

    Posts: 9,778

    Likewise the car also has it so you not using it doesn’t help with any security concerns.
     
  14. Scam

    Capodecina

    Joined: 20 Oct 2002

    Posts: 14,949

    Location: London

    The separation of scheme and process made this possibly, I believe because the EU was insistent the market should be opened up to other players more easily. However it's kinda hard to break into, considering the number of transactions, uptime, speed of transactions etc. The stats for processing are incredible. I can't see a startup even with EU/banks backing it, getting anywhere fast. They are trying though.
     
  15. red eye

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 30 Sep 2011

    Posts: 1,682

    Location: Over the hills and.......

    I hated it, it was basically a cash point card as not all shops accepted it
     
  16. Kenai

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Apr 2009

    Posts: 22,412

    As I understand it, this is effectively what VISA was in Europe until recently - it was the act of VISA 'Group' buying VISA Europe from the banks that resulted in MasterCard getting a look in on debit cards now - because they no longer had the incentive to effectively default to using VISA.
     
  17. GreatAuk

    Mobster

    Joined: 3 Apr 2009

    Posts: 2,737

    Location: Warrington

    I think the only time I've paid by card and they made a carbon copy was on a ferry, must have been at least 5 years ago though. Not sure if it was because they normally had an Internet connection that had gone down or something, but I presume by now they must have more reliable systems in most places, at least in the UK.
     
  18. Feek

    Commissario

    Joined: 16 Oct 2002

    Posts: 234,246

    Location: In the radio shack

    Yes. This happened to me in Gutersloh. I went into a restaurant and asked if they took card. I was told yes. Had my meal, tried to pay with a company Visa and they refused it. Tried to pay with my own Mastercard and they refused it. The cards they accepted were those drawn on German banks only!
     
  19. Em3bbs

    Soldato

    Joined: 26 Dec 2011

    Posts: 5,528

    Location: City of London

    Yeah, when I lived in Germany in the early/mid 2000s, pretty much no shops took VISA or Mastercard, it was all 'EC-Karte' debit cards from the German banks (now called Girocard apparently).

    It was pretty annoying when I came back to visit the UK as well and didn't have a VISA or Mastercard to use here.
     
  20. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 5 Dec 2003

    Posts: 20,112

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    With a good enough scanner the range is large enough to, for example, farm details from passersby while sitting on a bench at a train station. Literal blindness is not required. It doesn't matter if people see you. It matters if they notice you and suspect you.

    Not at all likewise. It's completely different because the transmission is initiated by and powered by the phone rather than the scanner and (as you say yourself) in almost all situations it has built in 2FA (possession and unlocking).

    Maybe, but it's an answer to the question asked - why people avoid contactless. Maybe it's blown out of proportion. But so is saving maybe 20 seconds when buying something, which is what you're putting forward as being overwhelmingly more important than reduced security.

    Then, of course, there's the much simpler reduction in security caused by the fact that contactless cards require only possession of the card for payments under £45. If someone steals my card, they could probably get away with stealing hundreds of pounds at <£45 each time. A serious thief wouldn't bother but casual thieves might.

    Personally, I use a contactless card because I couldn't be bothered with the fuss required to get one that isn't. I don't consider the reduction in security significant enough to care about. But I understand why some people do.