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VR upgrades for DCS

Discussion in 'Virtual Reality' started by forteh, 19 Oct 2021.

  1. forteh

    Gangster

    Joined: 18 Jan 2010

    Posts: 178

    Location: Lichfield

    Hi all, wishing to pick the collective mind here if I may...

    Currently using a lenovo explorer for simming (DCS/PC2/AC/DR) and whilst it's a good comfy headset with relatively clear visuals I'm having to crank steamvr resolutions to get the clarity I'd like which then gives a performance hit. I'm using 150% global steamvr resolution and 240% application specific for DCS which should give a combined total of 360%, on top of that I add MSAA in DCS to just take off the edges.

    With the VR preset in DCS + steamvr resolution I can pull 50ish fps in the A10C instant action, bumping textures/shadows/view distance/MSAA drops this down to 45ish. I run the headset at 90hz with motion smoothing off in DCS, fortunately I don't seem to suffer from VR sickness.

    CPU is Ryzen5 3600 @ 4.4ghz on all cores, gpu is rog strix gtx1070 @2101 core/8950 memory, 16gig 3200ddr4.

    Ideally I would upgrade to a 3070 or the like but I can't justify the current market price, alternatively could I upgrade the lenovo to a reverb and use the higher resolution display to reduce the requirement to bump up the steamvr supersampling to achieve picture clarity? Even running at half resolution I believe it would be better than the lenovo and if the frametimes allow I could try full resolution with a steamvr downsample.

    Anyone able to offer input?
    Even better, anyone near Lichfield with a reverb willing to let me test it out? :D

    TL : DR better to use steamvr supersampling as a crutch for low resolution VR display or use a high resolution display from the outset and downsample to allow the GPU to catch up?
     
  2. Ravenger

    Mobster

    Joined: 16 Jul 2010

    Posts: 3,716

    You won't be able to get the most out of the reverb with a 1070 (heck, it stresses 3090's if you crank everything to max), though you could undersample and get the benefit of massively reduced screen door effect, but I'm not sure how good that would look.
     
  3. forteh

    Gangster

    Joined: 18 Jan 2010

    Posts: 178

    Location: Lichfield

    To be fair, the screen door on the lenovo is very good, I never see it. Running at native resolution is ugly and whilst I can supersample up till it's not, I think that's imparting some blurriness.
    I know that the 1070 likely never hit 90fps with the full resolution on the reverb but I'm fairly comfortable with VR fps down to 35 or so and more than happy to be sitting at 45-50 so it might be useable, ideally I just don't want to drop the cash on it to find that it's not a workable solution :)
     
  4. Mr_Sukebe

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 23 Dec 2002

    Posts: 9,459

    Location: London

    As a short term assistance, go grab AMD FSR. Works with DCS assuming that you’re using OpenGL. I get a decent frame rate improvement from that with little visual impact
     
  5. forteh

    Gangster

    Joined: 18 Jan 2010

    Posts: 178

    Location: Lichfield

    Ah yes, already using FSR, forgot to mention that one :D
    Currently running at 0.7 renderscale and 1 sharpening.
    FWIW I'm reasonably happy with the performance of the 1070 in DCS, just questioning if I could get a better image quality more efficiently by changing the lenovo to a reverb.
     
  6. kevman

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 13 Jan 2018

    Posts: 1,037

    From my understanding having a better headset resolution is less computer labour intensive than having a low resolution headset and cranking up the supersampling to match.
     
  7. lokiss

    Mobster

    Joined: 14 Sep 2008

    Posts: 3,546

    Location: Nottingham

    I'll testify to that from a practical pov. While i can easily get my G2 blowing smoke cranking it up in certain games, the Index @150/200% will spin up my system in even the mundane applications like Big Screen and Pinball. In comparison in both those cases the G2 doesn't stress either my card or case fans.
     
  8. forteh

    Gangster

    Joined: 18 Jan 2010

    Posts: 178

    Location: Lichfield

    That's sort of the way I'm leaning, gives me a bit more of a justification for the expenditure!

    The index resolution is only slightly above the Lenovo so apart from the frame rate (120 vs 90) they shouldn't be too different in terms of horsepower required to drive them.

    Do you run the index at 90 or 120?
     
  9. lokiss

    Mobster

    Joined: 14 Sep 2008

    Posts: 3,546

    Location: Nottingham

    144.

    But realistically it's only really used for Beat Saber and other rhythm games that aren't too demanding, as well as few games that aren't compatible with the G2 controllers. The Index is far less demanding and will live happily on a 3070 whatever the game. The biggest jump from the Lenovo will be the FOV, it'll be a huge increase from a the binocular small form a 1st gen WMR device, it'll seem cavernous in comparison.

    That said it's a tough call to purchase an Index right now, certainly in a world where a better headset exists if your primary use is in a detailed simulation like DCS.
     
  10. forteh

    Gangster

    Joined: 18 Jan 2010

    Posts: 178

    Location: Lichfield

    Ah I wasn't considering an index, my rig is in a 43" square walk in cupboard* I play exclusively seated and other than sims only HL alyx and skyrim VR (use razer hydra rather than WMR controllers). As nice as it would be to have the index/controllers etc. I just can't use them due to space.
    A controllerless G2 is 440 quid at cex which is sorely tempting.

    *a bit like harry potter, except with a TM warthog, TM rudders, 599xx TX wheel, T3PA pro pedals, home made shifter & handbrake and cobra bucket seat :D
     
  11. Andy D

    Gangster

    Joined: 1 Dec 2009

    Posts: 193

    As far as I know just changing to a higher resolution headset means less screen door effect, though may give better blacks/contrast depending on panel type.
    The clarity depends on the ability of your GPU at rendering at the required framerate although this ability must also depend on software renderer, similar to using Vulken instead of DirectX (WMR vs Oculus runtime).
    This is how I understand things.
    The Reverb for me gave better clarity than Quest 2 but that was really just due to the USB compression thing. DCS looks lovely and sharp now but I personally would not recommend G2 unless I had 3070+ to use it properly in that sort of game
     
  12. forteh

    Gangster

    Joined: 18 Jan 2010

    Posts: 178

    Location: Lichfield

    Well I accidentally bought one, I'll report back as to how bad it is :D
     
  13. forteh

    Gangster

    Joined: 18 Jan 2010

    Posts: 178

    Location: Lichfield

    And after three days of waiting for a dispatch notice from cex I get an email saying that they've cancelled the order because they can't find the stock...

    To eBay I guess, shame I don't have MM access to have a peruse :(
     
  14. BigBANGtheory

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 21 Apr 2007

    Posts: 1,890

    you're going to need more GPU grunt than a 1070 to drive an HP Reverb G2 I'm afraid, I'd upgrade that first if I were you which obviously isn't ideal given the market conditions its probably a waiting game if you want any kind of good value option a 2nd hand 2080Ti maybe?
     
  15. Andy D

    Gangster

    Joined: 1 Dec 2009

    Posts: 193

    Agreed. I went from 1070 to 1080Ti and for me it still wasn’t enough for a Rift CV1 in a couple of games I play
     
  16. forteh

    Gangster

    Joined: 18 Jan 2010

    Posts: 178

    Location: Lichfield

    I'm planning on running it downsampled till I can upgrade the 1070 (1060 is recommended for half res iirc). Currently running halflife alyx at higher than reverb supersampling (2400 per eye) and it's bobbling along quite happily at 75-100+fps with the Lenovo. DCS I have supersampling set to 3000 per eye and still get 45+fps with reasonable settings. Appreciate that HLA does dynamic resolution stuff in the background but I have yet to see any evidence of it or drop in visual quality.

    I'm not playing any high speed games where low frametimes are essential and I don't have any issues with low fps with motion smoothing off.

    I grabbed one on eBay which should arrive tomorrow, I'll see how bad it is but if theory holds true I may be able to run the reverb at 100% and get reasonable frametimes. I could be theorising crap and I'll come back with feedback for you all to chortle at :D
     
  17. BigBANGtheory

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 21 Apr 2007

    Posts: 1,890

    there's no theory involved, it might be you can tolerate high latency and low frame rates but the simple facts are no way in a million years will a 1070 properly drive a Reverb G2.

    I went from from a 980Ti (which when overclocked is a 1070) to a 3080 and I can tell you even that requires heavy compromises in DCS VR

    on a separate note thou very pleased to see the Apache module now for pre-order on DCS, hell yeah that's gonna be so awesome
     
  18. forteh

    Gangster

    Joined: 18 Jan 2010

    Posts: 178

    Location: Lichfield

    Ah yeah I have no illusions that it's going to be full speed, full res with the 1070. I will upgrade the GPU when prices settle* but for now I'll wind the G2 down to workable levels.

    The stock 1070 is recommended for half res, mine happily runs at 2100/8950mhz which is 12-15% over its standard ROG binned boost so I'm reckoning to realistically aim at about 70% scaling and see where it goes from there.

    *Happily pay money for hardware but not pay over the odds for hardware artificially raised due to shortage.
     
  19. melmac

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 19 Dec 2010

    Posts: 9,946

    Me too, but, I am close to breaking point and if I can bring in some extra money over the next few weeks, I think I will be buying a new GPU over the Black Friday/Cyber Monday weekend.
     
  20. BigBANGtheory

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 21 Apr 2007

    Posts: 1,890

    Yeah I completely get it, GPU market conditions are awful for PC gamers atm, compounded by less than desirable options since Pascal era. Lobby your MP for financial regulation on Crypto that should free up the GPU market :)