We don't feel British, say Asians

[Toryglen-boy]

What does 'involving others' mean?

What does 'integration' mean, in your view? Can they consider themselves not really British (or not at all British) and practise an alien religion, yet still integrate? I don't think they can. They have to choose one or the other, they can't have it both ways.

cmon mate, thats a bit strong even for you ....

the muslim religion isnt 'alien' its just not idigenous to the UK, but calling it alien is a bit strong. When i say integrate, i mean get people to know about such things as Eid Mubarak (sp?) and not try to change 'Merry Christmas' to 'Happy non-denominational present exchanging season'

 

[div0]

But they'd still consider themselves belonging to this country and its people etc. so it would be totally confusing the issue unnecessarily... I wonder why people want to do that

It's not confusing the issue at all.

It's a simple point.

If you ask people from Scotland whether they feel 'Britsh' a certain percentage of them will reply that the do not feel 'British'. Some of them will come to that decision because they feel 'Scottish', for example. The same will happen throughout the UK.

Is it not possible that at least some of the 38% in question, didn't feel 'British', because they infact considered themselves 'English'? It might not actually be the case in this instance, but from the information we have been given, it is a possibility.

Just accept that it isn't a crime to not consider yourself 'British'. If the results of the survey had come back saying that 38% were part of a terrorist plot to reign terror on the UK, then maybe there would be reason to make a big deal out of this. But seriously, what is the point that you are trying to make here?

 

[dirtydog]

Was there any research on the reason they don't feel British. If I was made to feel as 'welcome' as some people like to make people from other countries or with different coloured skin feel, I wouldn't feel very British either...

Perhaps when they don't feel allegiance to Britain and/or act British, it isn't surprising that they aren't welcomed? Seems like a catch-22 to me.

DD, how can you ask the question you have when you've also stated that anyone not of the 'white race' cannot be considered truely British or English?

While I have my opinions, I am setting them aside for this thread and asking Asians what they themselves consider themselves to be, on the back of the article which asked a sample of Asians the same question.

 

[Toryglen-boy]

You are asking them if they feel British.

If you do not clarify what 'British' is, then it is a pointless exercise.

So once more, I ask you to clarify this.

I have noticed that you skirt around this question quite regularly (and also those pertaining to your own heritage)...

Are you a closet Asian?

*n

made me laugh !!

 

[dirtydog]

I would say such a thing because I think delimiting immigrants by their nationality, skin colour or culture, is inappropriate and irrelevent. I don't care whether or not an Asian feels 100% British with regards to immigration anymore. My disagreement with the idea of immigration is based solely on numbers and other concrete metrics because I now believe that the threat of cultural change is actually a red herring, used as an argument by people who are actually only concerned with the colour of a person's skin.

You believe wrong then or I wouldn't have posted so much about white immigrants from Eastern Europe

 

[Dolph]

I would say such a thing because I think delimiting immigrants by their nationality, skin colour or culture, is inappropriate and irrelevent. I don't care whether or not an Asian feels 100% British with regards to immigration anymore. My disagreement with the idea of immigration is based solely on numbers and other concrete metrics because I now believe that the threat of cultural change is actually a red herring, used as an argument by people who are actually only concerned with the colour of a person's skin.

My thoughts exactly.

You don't have to be racist (closet or otherwise) to oppose mass immigration, but that doesn't mean that all those who support mass immigration are doing it for non-racist/culturalist reasons.

 

[dirtydog]

cmon mate, thats a bit strong even for you ....

the muslim religion isnt 'alien' its just not idigenous to the UK, but calling it alien is a bit strong.

That's what alien means mate... lol Read the dictionary.

When i say integrate, i mean get people to know about such things as Eid Mubarak (sp?) and not try to change 'Merry Christmas' to 'Happy non-denominational present exchanging season'

So continuing their alien customs is integrating... no I don't think it is.

 

[Mr Nice]

Well speaking an ( I ruddy hate labels) as a British Asian, I feel 100% British.

As a kid in school I was mocked by the other Asian kids for having more white friends and called coconut funnily enough. Didn't bother me then, certainly doesn't bother me.

Had a conversation with my Dad saying he wants to build a house where my Grandfather still has a lot of land in India for future generations and I told him that it wouldn't interest me in the slightest as I consider England (well Kent actually) my home.

My wife (also British Asian) feels exactly the same.

 

[phykell]

To @if ®afiq, he might feel that way but clearly a lot of his fellow Asians do not.

I'd like you to go further, I'd like to hear you admit that you're happy someone like @if is here in the UK because he sounds like a decent, intelligent human being and this country benefits from his being here. Is that something you'd be happy to say? What about me? I'm non-white I know, but I like to think the huge amount of taxes I've paid over the years, makes up for the fact that I'm spoiling your utopian view of a an all-white Britain. Are you happy I'm here?

 

[Vita]

I'm asian, and I feel british, and also feel what my ethnicity is. I'm guessing some asians don't feel British because of all this criticism they recieve. And might just think, well if they can't accept how we are, sod this then.

I feel British enough to walk out on the street with my head up high and not feel like I'm a stranger in this country.

 

[Dolph]

Perhaps when they don't feel allegiance to Britain and/or act British, it isn't surprising that they aren't welcomed? Seems like a catch-22 to me.

Indeed it does, which is why when I've seen people hounding certain muslim members here about their beliefs, claiming they can't be a 'proper' muslim if they don't follow the worst or most extreme variations that some like to portray as commonplace beliefs, it gets even more confusing. Perhaps if the vocal minority on both sides wound their necks in a little things would improve.

While I have my opinions, I am setting them aside for this thread and asking Asians what they themselves consider themselves to be, on the back of the article which asked a sample of Asians the same question.

Fair enough. It does make it look like a trick question though, especially as you haven't defined what 'British' means, so whether someone feels British or not will vary depending on that individual's interpretation of British. There are some definitions where I wouldn't consider myself very British, for example I don't go to church, watch cricket/football, eat a sunday roast and go down the pub with my mates all the time, all fairly traditional British activities...

 

[Dolph]

That's what alien means mate... lol Read the dictionary.


So continuing their alien customs is integrating... no I don't think it is.

Integration is not assimilation. Continuing an alien culture without interfering in traditional culture will do fine for integration.

 

[dirtydog]

Integration is not assimilation. Continuing an alien culture without interfering in traditional culture will do fine for integration.

Is it possible for a large and fast growing section of society to practise an alien culture and not have it interfere with traditional culture at some point?

(Note I am not saying that all Asians do this as I'm sure they don't.)

 

[Dolph]

Is it possible for a large and fast growing section of society to practise an alien culture and not have it interfere with traditional culture at some point?

It's possible, the Chinese immigrant population for example still practice a lot of their culture without it really interfering. (Just for clarification, not interfering does not necessarily mean hidden, just that it doesn't clash with our traditional culture.).

There are some ways that muslim immigrants (I won't say asian, because not all asians are muslims and these trends aren't as prevelant among those who follow other religions from the same area) seem to provoke culture clash, such as their reactions to the cartoons of Muhammed and their apparent desire to make Islam impossible to criticise. However there are people on the other side who seek to provoke such reactions (ie by reprinting the cartoons just to get that reaction or to 'prove a point') who make the situation worse.

I'm willing to accept their culture as long as they respect ours, and acknowledge that where the two cultures clash, it should not be there way or the high way. I'm ok with compromise (to a point) but that's frequently not what some on both sides seem to want. There are muslims who think there culture must override all, and there are some on our side who think that the only way muslims can integrate is to stop being muslims, both positions that aren't really likely to result in anything other than conflict.

 

[chimaera]

I'd like you to go further, I'd like to hear you admit that you're happy someone like @if is here in the UK because he sounds like a decent, intelligent human being and this country benefits from his being here. Is that something you'd be happy to say? What about me? I'm non-white I know, but I like to think the huge amount of taxes I've paid over the years, makes up for the fact that I'm spoiling your utopian view of a an all-white Britain. Are you happy I'm here?

I would also like to have this answered. Methinks this thread hasn't quite gone to plan

I don't feel 100% British, maybe 95%. I was born in Bermuda (British Dependent Nation) to British parents, I like to think that the 5% Bermudan bit of me makes me unique and are proud of it.

Does that class me as an immigrant?

Definition - One who immigrates; one who comes to a country for the purpose of permanent residence

I guess it does really, depending on your viewpoint. Oh and i'm also married to a US immigrant, and very glad of it

 

[[TR]SweetSpotOz]

I am 100% British for example.

So your ancestors have never migrated?

Are you sure about that?

 

[ArmyofHarmony]

Unrelated but my mum can pass as English (she's unusually fair skinned for an Indian) and she has a English accent but... when her friends from India or something come to England and visit here, she puts on a bit more of an Indian accent... really ****** me off! it ain't an extreme accent, but it's the fact she's putting it on (although she claims she isnt doing it on purpose) pfft

 

[dirtydog]

I would also like to have this answered. Methinks this thread hasn't quite gone to plan

I don't feel 100% British, maybe 95%. I was born in Bermuda (British Dependent Nation) to British parents, I like to think that the 5% Bermudan bit of me makes me unique and are proud of it.

Does that class me as an immigrant?

Definition - One who immigrates; one who comes to a country for the purpose of permanent residence

I guess it does really, depending on your viewpoint. Oh and i'm also married to a US immigrant, and very glad of it

No you are not an immigrant.

 

[PaulStat]

There isn't such a thing as 100% British.

 

[Syph]

There was an interesting programme I saw a good couple of years ago. It was a Scottish comedian, who just so happened to be a Sikh Indian (I think) as well. He travelled up and Britain to find material and people's opinions. He was a very happy Scot, it just so happened his parents were Indian and Sikh too. I don't think he could say he was 100% British (or Scottish... it doesn't really matter as most people would acknowledge they were British in the grand scheme of things), but I'm sure he felt a very strong allegiance to Scotland/Britain, but importantly to his heritage too.

I hope he's a good example of most Asians in this country, certainly the Asians I know (mostly Sikh or Hindu Indians) seem/act/feel as British as I feel, but they just have a different heritage that they must feel some allegiance too. Part of my 'feeling British' is being proud of my heritage, so surely 2nd or 3rd generation Asians feel strong and proud ties to India or Pakistan. I wouldn't expect anything else.

/edit: I'm on good terms with a lot of guys down the gym who are of Jamaican/West Indian descent. They would say they were British, mostly, but would say they were Jamaican first - even the 2nd generation guys. I think it's their kids who would simply say they were British, but had Jamaican heritage.

Also, a British-Indian guy down the gym was an interesting guy to talk to. He grew up in Manchester and would proudly tell you he's a Manc, and spoke of Polish/Eastern European's in the same way as I imagine many 1950's/60's Brits spoke of his family.