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We need a new DX 10 mid range king!

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Ok Nvidia are bringing out the 8600 GTS, but that seems a little disappointing so far - only a 128 bit bus, and only a little faster than a 7900 GT, god knows what it will be like in Direct X 10 performance, I can't believe it will be that good.

What we need is a new 9700 PRO, or a new 6600 GT - something that is cheap, and punches far above its wieght and finally makes decent DX 10 gaming for senesible people who dont have the cash or the inclination to spend £400 + on a new graphics card.

We want a nice SINGLE SLOT, small graphics card, but one which can punch like the big boys.

The 7950 GT was single slot, and nice and small, yet it had a 256 bit bus and 512 MB of VRAM - why could Nvidia not give the 8600 GTS a 256 bit bus and 512 MB of VRAM? If they did it would be a seriously mean machine.

I was going to get an 8600 GTS, but have decided against it now. I will wait, until a seriously mean mid range pixel pumper is released, which is designed for DX 10 and which can actually run it properly.

I suppose it is only to be expected that with the advent of a new technology like DX 10 companies are going to want to make seriously high end stuff, to show off what it can do, and that they dont start working on a decent mid range, mainstream card until they have learned how to get the best out of the new tech.

Those of you who remember the mighty 9700 PRO and the equally splendid 6600 GT will know what I am talking about here - a mainstream card which totally blows away the competition, and which remains powerful for a good few years after its release. The 7600 GT has done it, and maybe the 8600 GTS will be better than I think, but I can't help thinking that, despite its insane memory speeds and lovely new G80-like architecture, it will be strangled in newer games by only having 256 MB of VRAM and a 128 bit memory bus.

As I said earlier, Nvidia managed a small, single slot card in the 7950 GT, which had a 256 bit bus, and 512 MB of VRAM, and that was pretty cheap at release and is still cheap now - yet it was punchy and is very capable of pushing today's games around on high settings. I would get one were it not for the fact that with DX10 looming it would not be a sensible investment.
The fact is that, looking at the specs and the early benchmarks (though the drivers are not perfect etc etc) the 8600 does not really seem to be such an advance, in fact it seems that technology has gone backwards.

Maybe I will be proved wrong, and maybe the 8600 GTS will be released, with proper drivers and maybe it will trash many older DX 9 cards, however I am skeptical, and so am going to keep my wallet in my pocket until we finally see a new DX 10 ready mid range king, something like a DX 10 version of the X1950 PRO, would be just wonderful....
 
Cartho said:
Maybe I will be proved wrong, and maybe the 8600 GTS will be released, with proper drivers and maybe it will trash many older DX 9 cards,
This is what I am hoping, as I am still looking for a good mid-range card for my HTPC and it looks like I might as well just hang on for the R630 and R610 based graphics cards as they should also have the audio over HDMI advantage.

They really dropped the ball with the 8600GTS and 8600GT. I can't see why anyone would want to buy one of those for £150 and £80 respectively with the X1950Pro at just over £100 and the 8800GTS at well under £200.
 
Ulfhedjinn said:
I can't see why anyone would want to buy one of those for £150 and £80 respectively with the 8800GTS at well under £200.

That is the real point. Unless you are unlucky like me and cannot run a dual slot card (due to terrible Dell case design) there is absolutely NO reason to buy one of these over the 320 MB 8800 GTS
 
Cartho said:
As I said earlier, Nvidia managed a small, single slot card in the 7950 GT, which had a 256 bit bus, and 512 MB of VRAM, and that was pretty cheap at release and is still cheap now - yet it was punchy and is very capable of pushing today's games around on high settings. I would get one were it not for the fact that with DX10 looming it would not be a sensible investment.
The fact is that, looking at the specs and the early benchmarks (though the drivers are not perfect etc etc) the 8600 does not really seem to be such an advance, in fact it seems that technology has gone backwards.

QUOTE]

8800GTS 320MB. easy. if you want less, pay less!
 
Interestingly enough there was "leaked specs" of the r610's and 630's earlier on in the week posted and I believe it showed these chipsets or at least one of them was sporting a 128bit bus :eek: which means an 8600gts story from ATi!

I dont know if its legit but if it comes to be then the 8800gts is clearly the mid range leader
 
I really don't know why anyone would bother, especially seeing that there are no DX10 games out at the moment... Chances are that these cards could have as much power as an FX5200 trundling through some DX9 games...

Surely better to hold fire a bit and wait until some good cards are released?
 
Emlyn_Dewar said:
I really don't know why anyone would bother, especially seeing that there are no DX10 games out at the moment... Chances are that these cards could have as much power as an FX5200 trundling through some DX9 games...

Surely better to hold fire a bit and wait until some good cards are released?

My FX5200 256MB could run Doom 3 on high settinigs with fps going down to 15fps sometimes.
 
jrodga2k5 said:
Interestingly enough there was "leaked specs" of the r610's and 630's earlier on in the week posted and I believe it showed these chipsets or at least one of them was sporting a 128bit bus :eek: which means an 8600gts story from ATi!

I dont know if its legit but if it comes to be then the 8800gts is clearly the mid range leader
Oh God. :( Typical, just typical.

I think Nvidia and AMD have both utterly lost the plot.
 
WE WANT A DX10 VERSION OF THE X1950 PRO 512 Mb!! PLEASE!!!!
Something fast, cheap, small form and DX 10 ready!

As I said, Nvidia managed to make a 512 MB card, with a 256 bit bus on a SINGLE SLOT card - the 7950 GT, therefore we KNOW it is not impossible!
 
Ulfhedjinn said:
Oh God. :( Typical, just typical.

I think Nvidia and AMD have both utterly lost the plot.

Well my thinking goes like this....

Surely just surely NVidia would have had a decent idea of what ATi were doin with their mid ranger chipsets, hence the reason they opted for the 128bit bus! I cant imagine them doing this for any reason other than that is what their competition will do because lets face it, why bring out something which clearly sucks?!

First mid range cards will suck as both will be 128bit whereas the next ones will be 256bit at least and this will be in the form of the 8700series and like the ATi equivalent!

Well thats my theory :p
 
Well its technically still a high range card, as look at the performance of just high of the top of the range card at the moment!

The 8600GTS is supposed to be the mid range equivalent and then their 8300-8500's will creep in to fill the low-mid range gap! but by pricing the 8600gts the way they have that line between mid and high range from nvidia has been somewhat blurred.

Believe me the 8800 is never a mid range card just now, its just holding a near mid range price which is great! High end for a mid range price, happy indeed
 
Think of it from Nvidia's POV, rather than a customer's...

They have a kick-ass GPU, the G80, and they are gradually perfecting its fabrication. The first chips off the line went into their premium card - the 880GTX - and they had to disable some of the 'streams' to bring in a slightly less premium card - the 8800GTS.

Now these cards have been out for a good six months they have cleaned up in the premium section pretty conclusively, so now they need a new mid-range offering which they can describe as DX10 compatible. So they easiest way to do that (not sure about how much they've amputated from the core) is to castrate the memory bus. It would be pretty silly to have a card that wipes the floor with the 7xxx series, wouldn't it? Especially considering the 8800GTS isn't THAT far off...

Second thing to consider is that Nvidia want a product that sounds great and will make them lots of revenue, i.e. something they can make for cheap (Relatively) and sell for cheap: in comes the 8600s and 8500s. Their sole purpose will be for DX10 pimpage: a bit like walking around with a sock down one's trousers... looks good to all those who don't know any better. They will sell them by the truckload as Joe Public swallows up their obviously superior DX10 capabilities and replaces his none-too-shabby 7900GTX with one.

And do remember that the Radeon 9700 was eye-bleedingly expensive for a card back when it came out and was a very premium card. The 9500Pro was the card to have.
 
mrthingyx said:
It would be pretty silly to have a card that wipes the floor with the 7xxx series, wouldn't it? Especially considering the 8800GTS isn't THAT far off...

what?

I presume you mean it would be pretty silly to have a MID RANGE card that wipes the floor with the 7 series, then why?
Why would that be silly? It is progress. The 7 series is OLD hardware - for a different version of Direct X - Nvidia should be trying to persuade as many people as possible to upgrade to DX 10 - they wont manage this buy making their midrange card slower than previous gen mid range cards will they?

The 6600 GT was a mid range card, yet it was like a silver bullet for Nvidia - lightning quick, and it is STILL capable of running today's games (albeit at lower settings) - not bad considering when it came out and its price.
 
Cartho said:
what?

I presume you mean it would be pretty silly to have a MID RANGE card that wipes the floor with the 7 series, then why?
Why would that be silly? It is progress. The 7 series is OLD hardware - for a different version of Direct X - Nvidia should be trying to persuade as many people as possible to upgrade to DX 10 - they wont manage this buy making their midrange card slower than previous gen mid range cards will they?

The 6600 GT was a mid range card, yet it was like a silver bullet for Nvidia - lightning quick, and it is STILL capable of running today's games (albeit at lower settings) - not bad considering when it came out and its price.
The mid-range from one series obviously has to be better than the mid-range from the last, but is rarely (if ever?) better than the top-end from the last.
 
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