We're all organ doners now...

Nothing at all, which is probably one of the main reasons why many people are unwilling to opt in...

Y'all certainly loving throwing all these 'probablys' around.

As with most things pertaining to us human beings, I am more inclined to think it is due to apathy and general laziness. If you really care that much about it, you are free to opt out.

By switching it around, apathy doesn't lead to preventable deaths like the previous situation.

Also, the Hippocratic Oath focuses on the life of your patient, not the the potential lives of other people your patient might impact if you look the other way.

As a quick example:
https://www.dnaz.org/why-doctors-will-not-let-you-die-if-youre-a-registered-organ-donor/
 
Interesting quote from a government publication. Shows the difference this new system could potentially make.

Although 80% of people say they would be happy to donate their organs after their death, only 37% are registered as donors.
 
I'm really surprised that people care so much about what happens to their bodies when they die. I mean, normally you either get buried or cremated... you either rot or burn... so I find it hard to understand why, if you have a perfectly good organ, you wouldn't let someone else have it.
far worse things in the world like the people with more money than they could ever spend even if they lived for 10-1000 life times wanting to hang on to it all until they die.
no one bats an eyelid even though their money could benefit society more than one persons organs

Not wanting to give up parts of your body for personal or religious beliefs, don't see a problem with it.

Maybe some people just arent comfortable with being kept alive in a braindead state whilst your organs are waiting to be harvested like vultures circling a corpse.
 
Interesting quote from a government publication. Shows the difference this new system could potentially make.

Although 80% of people say they would be happy to donate their organs after their death, only 37% are registered as donors.

I think it is one of those things where people are reluctant to have to make the active choice, possibly because they are reluctant to have to confront their own mortality (Especially in the age groups of the Young Motorcyclists people whose organs are likely to be of the greatest benefit.)

The current changes of course change the consequences of that reluctance into a positive rather than negative one.

Y'all certainly loving throwing all these 'probablys' around.

As with most things pertaining to us human beings, I am more inclined to think it is due to apathy and general laziness. If you really care that much about it, you are free to opt out.

By switching it around, apathy doesn't lead to preventable deaths like the previous situation.

Maybe one should do a straw poll (Hidden for obvious reasons) in OCUK of all those who have not registered as donors.

Say; (Feel free to phrase better)

"Why haven't you registered as an organ Donor? (Main reason)"

a) Haven't got a Round tuit
b) Ethical/Religious objections to the concept
c) Concerns that it might distress friends/family
d) Concerns that it might reduce efforts made to treat me if seriously injured.
e) Uncomfortable at facing my own mortality
f) <Any other reason>
etc.

Also, the Hippocratic Oath focuses on the life of your patient, not the the potential lives of other people your patient might impact if you look the other way.

a) Not all Doctors take the oath, it isn't in any way compulsory.
b) Doctors trade lives and consider some more expendable than others all the time, otherwise there wouldn't be abortion clinics (Quite apart from the many more subtle choices that are routinely made in the name of triage)
 
That's a bit like saying that the chief cook and the chief engineer are independent of one another. Their roles may be different and not directly related to one another, but they both serve on the same ship!

Not really. One is responsible for the donor, the other for the recipient. They're unlikely to be in the same hospital or even know each other.
 
b) Doctors trade lives and consider some more expendable than others all the time, otherwise there wouldn't be abortion clinics (Quite apart from the many more subtle choices that are routinely made in the name of triage)

Nice try, but the fetus is not the patient in that equation.
 

What a website says does not mean they actually do it, in my experience of dealing with the NHS.

The NHS is there to patch people up and that's really it. It is dependent on funding, a large proportion of funding is for stakeholders providing estate management.

The NHS is hemoragging money have very poor infection control.

I am all for growing organs which can be done but the funding for that is very low. Researchers in that area are poorly paid compared to none medical managers.

The NHS was bigger in size regarding estates, and now poorly managed for a quick profit for private wealthy individuals.

NHS could be a great research institute but it shys away from this as it crosses over into the private sector which is a no-no.

Typing this from a mobile words somehow change.
 
The argument that you would be more likely to be "left to die" so your organs can be harvested is null, surely, because with the opt out system there will be a lot more organs to go around?
 
Nope. Its some inane rubbish about not being fully dead.

I think he's worried that transplant doctors will be cutting your liver out and running off down the hall with it because you're clinically dead whilst your regular doctor is still busy applying CPR for 15 minutes before pronouncing you legally dead.
 
Not really. One is responsible for the donor, the other for the recipient. They're unlikely to be in the same hospital or even know each other.


They are however all part of the same System/Organisation (Particularly in the UK NHS)

And at a senior level. I dare say a lot of them do know one another, like Lawyers.

Big organisations may well have Chinese Walls built into them. But the idea that these walls are impenetrable is not credible.

(Going back to Lawyers. I can recall a party many years ago where there were a number of Barristers from both sides of the fence. (As it were) having a great old time discussing their cases and comparing the relative merits of each sides arguments. I dare say they shouldn't have been doing so, but people are only human. even Lawyers!)

Nice try, but the fetus is not the patient in that equation.

But it is still trading off one life against another. And it is certainly "Doing Harm", at least to the fetus.

Are we perhaps looking at a modified hypocritic principle? "First, Do no harm (To your own patient, but everybody else is expendable)" :p
 
I think he's worried that transplant doctors will be cutting your liver out and running off down the hall with it because you're clinically dead whilst your regular doctor is still busy applying CPR for 15 minutes before pronouncing you legally dead.

You do know why the Philippines has a niech market for top grade heart transplant clinics...
 
They are however all part of the same System/Organisation (Particularly in the UK NHS)

And at a senior level. I dare say a lot of them do know one another, like Lawyers.
Given my previous (very good) experiences that would seem to be true. Last time I needed a bit of slicing and dicing, it was quite obvious that my consultant preferred to work with or get work/tests done by particular people even from different hospitals. From a conversation I had afterwards, they do have professional groups where they share knowledge and discuss things (my case was quite unusual for a few reasons - he told me he'd discussed it with his peers). I'm betting it's a pretty small world and that has to be a good thing for obvious reasons. :)

I don't think that means it's likely they are going to ring around and say, "I'm after a liver for my friend's wife, can you see if you can knock someone off for me?" :D The corruption angle is more likely if anything though.
 
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The easy way to fix the issues of consent would be when you register with a GP.
Box suggesting opt in or out.

This way everyone is informed and can make their own choice.

That would be a very good idea. At least to people who think that informed consent matters.

Until the need for consent was removed, the UK's system was to encourage consent and to make it extremely easy to consent. Which is why most potential donors were already registered by choice and most of the remaining either can't be donors or wouldn't choose to register for organ donation for philosophical or religious reasons. The only way to make any significant increase in the number of potential donors in the UK is to force everyone to be a donor.

But forcing people to consent with out knowing the policies is pretty bad and leads to further changes in the future.

Which is probably the point. The government isn't entirely ignorant, so they will know that changing the system to declare that everything other than active resistance is consent will have little or no effect on transplant numbers in the UK. Since they know full well that the change can't serve the publically stated purpose, there must be another purpose for the change. It's purpose is either to gain votes or to be a step towards further changes based on the principle that anything other than active resistance is consent and that the state owns your body. Or both. We'll see which direction they're heading by seeing what spin is put on what happens next. It's likely that improvements in knowledge and technology and infrastructure will continue to bring slight increases to the number of transplants done. If the purpose of removing the need for consent was purely to gain votes, any such increase will be spun as a result of the removal of the need for consent. If the purpose is to build on the precedent set by the removal of the need for consent, any such increase will be attributed to improvements in knowledge, technology and infrastructure and further changes building on the precedent set by the removal of the need for consent will be proposed and promoted as a good thing using the tried and tested tool of manipulation - spin it as something necessary to save lives, especially children's lives. Think of the children! Vote Prop 13 or you hate children! Do that for a bit and it becomes self-sustaining as people either genuinely believe it or express it especially fervently anyway as virtue signalling so they are not targetted themselves. It won't be long before anyone who claims consent matters will be denounced as an evil person who causes people's deaths and should be refused medical treatment. As has happened in this thread.

This provided further problems let’s say you have 10 % chance of living would you get proper care or will the doctor see you as a donor and not try and do everything he can to save your life? And this has happened in the past.

It has, but probably wouldn't happen here in the near future.

I believe we should throw as much money into stem cell regeneration for human organs. Yes, in the short run it will be very expensive, however it would save more people and be cost efficient in the future.

It's also an inherently better solution to grow replacement organs from the patient's own body. There's a persistant portrayal of transplants as a one-time thing that's a permanent fix without any problems. A little while to recover from the operation and that's it, job done, permanent fix and nothing else required. That's not true. They'll be on anti-rejection drugs for life and that's a problem because the whole point of anti-rejection drugs is to adversely affect the immune system. That's what they're for - to try to stop the person's immune system attacking the transplanted tissue.

But transplants from other people are required at the moment and would probably still have a useful purpose if it became possible to grow spare parts from a person's own cells. I'm strongly in favour of transplants. That's why I became a registered organ donor as soon as I could, many years ago. But I'm also strongly opposed to the idea that anything other than active resistance is consent. That's a horrible idea and all the people proudly proclaiming it's a great idea should be ashamed of themselves.
 
I’m not ashamed of myself thank you for believing the opt out system is the right way to do it.

If you truly believe that then over half the country should be ashamed of themselves, because a huge majority favour it, but of course they’re wrong and you’re right*

*In your own mind
 
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