What are my rights?

[Richeh]

Hello,
I purchased an LCD TV (Hyundai Q261) from a competitor last August. When I first received the set it had some issues with colour distortion, making the picture unwatchable, also the speakers had a hum when nothing was being displayed. The hum is a well known problem with this line of models but the colour distortion as far as I can tell was special for me

Anyway, I did nothing because I was able to get rid of the colour distortion by cycling through the Picture in Picture menu. However, lately the distortion is happening everytime I turn on the TV and some times it just won't go away so I end up having to turn the TV off at the plug and leave it for a while.

Now monday I emailed the company I originally got it from and they gave me a number for the Hyundai warranty section, rang that and it was actually dealt with by a company called repairtech. Spoke to a nice lady, described my problems and she said email her the invoice and they would arrange a time to pick up the TV repair it (which would take roughly 7-10 working days) and return it to me.

Now, to be honest, i'm not sure I want the same TV again,
1. I have read over AVforums (hope its not a competitor) that people have had the TV 'repaired' and still have problems.
2. I don't really want my TV gone for 7-10 days as I have read that some people have been waiting for months, I just bought a nice PS3 and want to play it.
3. And this is a bit of a selfish reason, when I bought the TV it was a great buy for a budget, I now have a bit more money and am thinking that the TV has this many problems within 8 months that maybe I would like to spend a bit more on a nicer one.

Now, I am awaiting the email for my pick up date but am wondering, do I have any rights to my money back? I know I should have reported it sooner but surely as I am still with my warranty I may be able to do something?

Any help appreciated.

 

[the-void]

If you had a problem right at the start - as soon as you took it out of the box, then you would have been entitled to a refund. As far as the shop is concerned you have not had a problem until now, 8 months later, and they can reasonably decline your refund and quite fairly offer you a repair. Sorry dude, you waited too long.

 

[Richeh]

Ah no problem, I won't be able to ring them again tonight (don't finish work till after they close) but does anything know if my warranty will be renewed once they repair it?

As I only have 4 months left and if they 'repair' it and it breaks again, what do I do then? I know no-one will have specific knowledge but i'm just wondering if it is the general done thing to renew the warranty.

 

[Spleenus]

You should not of had to contact the manufacturer at all. The shop is where you bought the item and is who you deal with about the faulty tv.

You also do not only have four months left since you are protected by the sale of goods act which essentially states that the product must last a decent amount of time. Although it states upto six years that won't always apply generally but you would expect your tv to last a while at any rate. So warranty isn't as much of an issue, you just need to know your rights as a consumer.

 

[the-void]

You should not of had to contact the manufacturer at all. The shop is where you bought the item and is who you deal with about the faulty tv.

You also do not only have four months left since you are protected by the sale of goods act which essentially states that the product must last a decent amount of time. Although it states upto six years that won't always apply generally but you would expect your tv to last a while at any rate. So warranty isn't as much of an issue, you just need to know your rights as a consumer.

I agree, you should not have had to contact the manufacturer. However you need to remember that the right to reject goods and get a full refund only lasts for a relatively short time after which a buyer is deemed to have 'accepted' goods. (As per the sale of goods act). You can still go to court, but your unlikely to get a full refund.

Prior to 6 months its down to the shop to prove the fault didn't exist at the time of purchase, after 6 months its down to the customer to prove the fault exists at the time of contract. The longer you leave it, the more difficult it becomes.

 

[jas72]

yup I was reading a site about that recently.

Yeah I remember it now it was bbc.co.uk/watchdog

They have all the links and it's explained rather well.

If you want a refund they have the right to depreciate the tv by the number of months wear and tear you've given it. I'm not sure about TVs but my company gives 100% depreciation over 3 years for PC and IT equipment.

So going to court would probably give you 78% of the cost back. (Provided that it's the same for TVs as IT equipment.)

 

[Richeh]

I don't want to take it all the way to court, was just curious to see if I was entitled to a refund or not since it is now (didn't tell them it happened when I received it) faulty. Apparently not though.

They are coming to pick it up tomorrow, just annoyed it will be gone for so long.

Thanks for the help anyway.

 

[Samtheman1k]

Legally, yes, as your statutory rights say you are entitled to a refund if it is not 'fit for purpose'. However, convincing places to give you a refund and not break the law can be impossible, including suprisingly close online IT equipment suppliers.

 

[the-void]

Legally, yes, as your statutory rights say you are entitled to a refund if it is not 'fit for purpose'. However, convincing places to give you a refund and not break the law can be impossible, including suprisingly close online IT equipment suppliers.

Legally you only have a limited time to reject goods for a "full" refund. After this time you will be offered a repair, or at most a partial refund.

 

[Richeh]

Legally you only have a limited time to reject goods for a "full" refund. After this time you will be offered a repair, or at most a partial refund.

Well they have come and collected it yesterday, 2 weeks waitish, don't mind getting it back if its fully working more worried that something else will go wrong. Although if they say they can either exchange it or offer refund I won't hesitate to take the latter.

 

[Scrutinize]

Well they have come and collected it yesterday, 2 weeks waitish, don't mind getting it back if its fully working more worried that something else will go wrong. Although if they say they can either exchange it or offer refund I won't hesitate to take the latter.

You have to been seen to be reasonable in these cases, as do they. If they get if fixed in the time frame they say (and it seems a fair one) thats all good. If not then you can take it further.

 

[fini]

You could just go in store and say that it was faulty within the first six months and that you've been on holiday/otherwise detained for a couple of weeks. That way they have to prove that the problem isn't intrinsic with the device. Otherwise just take it down to the store and say what you've said to us - it had a minor defect, but this defect has grown. You're proof that it was due to something wrong with the television upon delivery is the fact that it's grown out of the minor defect.

People talking about acceptance are confused. Yes it's true that you have an absolute right to decline the item during the period in which you are still examining the goods (which can be up to a month), but that's not relevent here.

Under SOGA your rights to either a 1)repair 2)refund isn't something that they get to choose - you do.

fini

 

[the-void]

You could just go in store and say that it was faulty within the first six months and that you've been on holiday/otherwise detained for a couple of weeks. That way they have to prove that the problem isn't intrinsic with the device. Otherwise just take it down to the store and say what you've said to us - it had a minor defect, but this defect has grown. You're proof that it was due to something wrong with the television upon delivery is the fact that it's grown out of the minor defect.

People talking about acceptance are confused. Yes it's true that you have an absolute right to decline the item during the period in which you are still examining the goods (which can be up to a month), but that's not relevent here.

Under SOGA your rights to either a 1)repair 2)refund isn't something that they get to choose - you do.

fini

Fini. Time for you to brush up on the sale of goods act, I think.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page24700.html

• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

The OP's product is over 8 months old. It is down to the OP to prove the fault was apparent at the point of purchase and NOT the shop - regardless if he has been on holiday or not.

The OP never informed the seller at any point about the fault until 8 months later. The shop was never aware of any minor fault on delivery.

Also the shop has the choice to offer a REPAIR or REPLACEMENT once the goods have been classed as accepted. In this case, I would suggest that after 8 months the shop has a good case to say the product has been accepted.

By the OP's own admission he has had SOME use from this product, therefore it is down to shop to decide to offer a PARTIAL refund if THEY feel it is more economical than a REPAIR or REPLACE. It would be extremely hard to demand a full refund after 8 months and say you have had NO use from the product in that time - and would probably involve going to court.

I just couldn't imagine a judge deciding to give the OP a full refund after 8 months where in that time the OP has never complained once to the seller about any issues and the issue was that serious that the OP has NO enjoyment from the product in that time. Also the OP would need to demonstrate that the fault was apparent at the time of purchase - not an easy task. Also the OP is being offered a REPAIR of the product once the issue has been raised.

However, the shop should definitely not be referring you to the manufacturer. I would take this up with the shop, and let them know that you will inform trading standards it they refer you to the manufacturer again.

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

Obviously in different cases the law would be applied differently, but based on what the OP has said - I doubt he will ever get a full refund without great difficulty and probably a court case. Sorry dude, but he waited too long. I believe him about the fault, but proving that to the seller and the courts... well...

 

[fini]

Fini. Time for you to brush up on the sale of goods act, I think.

Thanks for the rolleyes. Maybe you should actually read what I wrote before replying next time.

The OP's product is over 8 months old. It is down to the OP to prove the fault was apparent at the point of purchase and NOT the shop - regardless if he has been on holiday or not.

This is incorrect - as you yourself have said what is important is whether the device itself has developed the fault within six months - not if it is reported to the company within those six months.

The OP never informed the seller at any point about the fault until 8 months later. The shop was never aware of any minor fault on delivery.

That's immaterial. Firstly, remember this is a backup position if his claim that it broke within six months failed. If he can prove that there was a fault from the beginning then he does not have to prove that the major fault occurred within six months- simply that the original fault was within six months and, due to the nature of the original fault, the new fault is causally linked to a fault at time of purchase.

Also the shop has the choice to offer a REPAIR or REPLACEMENT once the goods have been classed as accepted. In this case, I would suggest that after 8 months the shop has a good case to say the product has been accepted.

Wrong. The consumer has the choice. To quote your post again 'If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement'. It is for the consumer to choose either 1)refund, 2)repair, 3)replacement. If the shop can prove that repair and/or replacement is either impossible or two costly then and only then do the choices get narrowed.

By the OP's own admission he has had SOME use from this product, therefore it is down to shop to decide to offer a PARTIAL refund if THEY feel it is more economical than a REPAIR or REPLACE.

The full refund is based on a claim of a fault within the first six months as I've been saying. Partial refunds are only given after the 6 months; during six months you're rescinding the contract under s48C . I also disagree with your use of 'economical' in that sentence - it should be 'disproportionate', which, I feel has a very different meaning.

I just couldn't imagine a judge deciding to give the OP a full refund after 8 months where in that time the OP has never complained once to the seller about any issues and the issue was that serious that the OP has NO enjoyment from the product in that time.

See Bernstein v Pamson Motors

Also the OP would need to demonstrate that the fault was apparent at the time of purchase - not an easy task. Also the OP is being offered a REPAIR of the product once the issue has been raised.

He is claiming that a major fault has grown from a minor fault. To prove that the minor fault was their at the time of purchase it would be relatively simple to adduce some witness statements (unless he happens to live alone with no friends).

However, the shop should definitely not be referring you to the manufacturer.

True - a lot of shops try this nowadays

fini

 

[Richeh]

Right just an update. Received the TV back yesterday from repairtech, only just had a chance to plug it in today. Guess what, exactly the same problem! They have fixed the speaker hum but the colour distortion is still there.

Don't know what to do now, am thinking of contacting the online company I bought it from and say they had a chance to repair it, it hasn't been and I want my money back?

Or is there another way I should go about it?

Cheers

 

[Moley]

One thing that is often overlooked about purchases, is that they must be "fit for purpose" which includes a reasonable amount of durability. Basically they must last a reasonable amount of time before breaking.

8 months is not a reasonable amount of time for a television to last. 8 Years would be.

Take it to court and the court will likely rule in your favour.

I'm not working at the CAB any more so would suggest you pop in to your local for the latest info on consumer complaints.

 

[Richeh]

Right, received this email today from the company:

'Hi, I am sorry to hear the issues you have had however we are unable to offer a refund for you, you would need to contact Hyundai to repair the item.'

Now, I am not sure if it is them having just glanced at my original e-mail or being slightly ignorant to the fact that I have already contacted Hyundai and have already had it repaired.

What should be my next step? I would like to avoid taking it all the way to small claims court etc as its basically a lot of hassle. However, I do now want a refund as I feel I have given them an opportunity to repair it and as they haven't I now no longer have faith in the company. Bearing in mind I am within my first year of warranty.

Does anyone have any opinions?

 

[Raymond Lin]

Right, received this email today from the company:

'Hi, I am sorry to hear the issues you have had however we are unable to offer a refund for you, you would need to contact Hyundai to repair the item.'

Now, I am not sure if it is them having just glanced at my original e-mail or being slightly ignorant to the fact that I have already contacted Hyundai and have already had it repaired.

What should be my next step? I would like to avoid taking it all the way to small claims court etc as its basically a lot of hassle. However, I do now want a refund as I feel I have given them an opportunity to repair it and as they haven't I now no longer have faith in the company. Bearing in mind I am within my first year of warranty.

Does anyone have any opinions?

You never had a right for refund anyway, its always let the retailer to replace or repair first. Plus letting the problem live on PROVES you have accepted the fault.

 

[the-void]

Fini, after 8 months it isn't down to the shop to prove there wasn't a fault. Regardless if the customer lies and says he was on holiday and that's why he never reported it within the first 6 months. Surely they have a postal service at the place he was supposed to be on holiday, or telephones.

See, I did read what you wrote. And I still cannot see a judge giving a full refund after 8 months for a TV that he is claiming is un-watchable, although he might get lucky with a judge, like the case you provided.

 

[Richeh]

I rang consumer direct and they told me I should push for an exchange, have emailed the company awaiting there response. Was also given a line of law to quote as well.