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What do you class as a performance car?

Discussion in 'Motors' started by Steve, 4 May 2006.

  1. Steve

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,116

    Location: Brighton - In the seat that Ro

    Not wanting to derail the RS crash thread I would start another as it got me thinking and thought it would be a good discussion


    Probably get flamed and don't get me wrong I do like the RS alot coming from the old Excort RS days but it doesn't sit well with me refering to them as a performance car, they are a (very) hot hatch

    Not sure where I would draw the line and start putting cars into the "performance" class to be honest? I don't think any FWD car could ever be a "performance" car in my book. Maybe a car that is made to be the best performing vehical as its key value with only slight consession to cost may be a factor?

    For example (list not exclusive and just as an idea)

    Performance cars would be

    M series BMWs
    AMG Mercs
    Scoobys (STIs etc not the non turbos )
    Evos
    Porsche 911 (maybe not boxter)
    Tuned Jap cars Skyline, RX7s etc
    RS4
    NSX

    everyday "sports cars"
    Focus RS / ST
    FTO
    ASTRA VRX
    Mondey ST220
    MX5
    TYPE Rs
    S4

    The exotic things like ferraris' Lambos and high end porkers would fall under supercars obviously.

    That just me or anyone else thought this or have a good definition of what they feel makes a true performance car? as it is very subjective.

    Steve
     
  2. cymatty

    Capodecina

    Joined: 27 Sep 2004

    Posts: 13,305

    Location: South Yorkshire

    I would say most amg's are just fast saloons, i would say a sports car is like a vx220 turbo, elise, exige and a itr. :)
     
  3. thebrasso

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 5,312

    I don't think you can rule out FWD cars...Plenty of examples of Integras whipping some good RWD cars on the track.

    I guess to me you'd have to narrow it down to performance characteristics and the ability to transmit them in a real world environment.

    For example a 2.0 turbo'd Corsa would probably be quick in a straight line but chances are it would get wasted by something like a Clio 172 in the twisties.
     
  4. paradigm

    Caporegime

    Joined: 26 Aug 2003

    Posts: 36,990

    Location: Staffordshire

    I wouldn't call my car a "performance car" per-say, however its definately not an "everyday" sports-car. Not really sure what I'd rate it, as its not your average "hot-hatch" either :confused:
     
  5. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 158,166

    I would say a Performance Car is any car which has performance. I would classy 'Performance' as 0-60 in about 8 seconds or less.

    Performance Car is a very broad, vague term. It can be anything from a big fat Merc that goes very fast to a light, nimble Elise.

    Pure performance - so if it goes fast and cannot corner to save its life, its a performance car, but if its slow yet ridiculously brlliant in the bends, it isnt a performance car.

    Categories like 'Sports car' are there for being more specific.
     
  6. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 158,166

    I would - a Leon Cupra R is indisputably a performance car. It is a car, and it has what you can most certainly say is performance.
     
  7. Steve

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,116

    Location: Brighton - In the seat that Ro

    it is a broad term but my only personnel requisit would be RWD or AWD, FWD cannot put the power down at the high levels that iwould class a performance car to have

    0-60 times would need to be sub 6 secs but I come from motorbikes so most performance cars seem slow ;)
     
  8. paradigm

    Caporegime

    Joined: 26 Aug 2003

    Posts: 36,990

    Location: Staffordshire

    Now that is wrong, my car has no problem laying down 225bhp at the front at the moment, and the mapped one I drove at the dealership had no problem laying down 260~bhp.
     
  9. thebrasso

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 5,312

    To me unless you are using a specific area as a measure, for example 0-60 times, then a performance car to me must have a combination of factors. These could include things straight line speed, handling, braking, in gear acceleration.

    'Performance car' is too generic a term to narrow it down to one area such as 0-60 times.
     
  10. Firestar_3x

    Caporegime

    Joined: 11 Mar 2005

    Posts: 30,662

    Location: Leafy Cheshire

    Not so sure about that, my mx is sub 8 seconds but its not a performance car, its without doubt a sports car, in 'what car' it keeps winning this group test in every year.
     
  11. thebrasso

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 5,312

    I have to disagree with you there.

    Goliath's Focus RS is running about 260bhp IIRC (approximately) and from what I've heard from others and seen for myself that had no problems putting the power down.

    If the actual car can handle the power (i.e. the brakes, suspension, chassis design) then it isn't a problem IMO. Handling characteristics would be a bit different though.
     
  12. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

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    Posts: 158,166

    I don't care what you guys eventually decide performance is just make sure I can legitimately go around saying 'yea, I now have a performance car' when I change cars, becuase it sounds cool.

    Thanks :p
     
  13. Steve

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,116

    Location: Brighton - In the seat that Ro

    Most discussions I have seen from enthusiasts and manufactures agree that 250bhp at the front wheels is really the max

    I have been in a seriously well moded 280bhp Civic TypeR and it Torque steered all over the place, fast but it couldn't hack the power.

    Not wishing to turn this into a FWD v debate but there is a reason why "performance" (that word again) cars are all AWD or RWD and not FWD, and I am sure 99% of people who drive them would never go back to FWD unless deliberatly going back to a normal car.

    Not being funny but have you owned anything other than FWD? (this REALLY is not having a dig just intrested in where you are drawing your opinions :))

    Steve
     
  14. Steve

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 3,116

    Location: Brighton - In the seat that Ro

    Make sure you get an M5 and you can refer to it however you want and we will all agree ;)
     
  15. thebrasso

    Soldato

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    :D Are you getting the BMW soon then Fox?

    This is the sort of discussion that could go round in circles. Plucking figures out of thin air.
     
  16. paradigm

    Caporegime

    Joined: 26 Aug 2003

    Posts: 36,990

    Location: Staffordshire

    Owned, no. Driven, plenty.

    To name a few:

    E46 330D
    E36 320i
    Mitsubishi GTO
    A4 Quattro

    etc, etc...

    I would say that as a whole, RWD is my favourite powertrain of choice, however for ease of driving FWD still has them licked.
     
  17. Firestar_3x

    Caporegime

    Joined: 11 Mar 2005

    Posts: 30,662

    Location: Leafy Cheshire

    Agreed matey, everyones definition of a performance car is diff depends what you drive atm and what you think is fast, someone who drives a 1.0 corsa might see a 1.8 focus as a performance car for example.
     
  18. olv

    Soldato

    Joined: 12 Jan 2005

    Posts: 5,290

    Location: london

    In my mind a performance car can lap the 'ring in sub 8:30
     
  19. Firestar_3x

    Caporegime

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    Location: Leafy Cheshire

    Totally agree, its much easier to push on with a fwd car than with a rwd car as proven today :D
     
  20. cymatty

    Capodecina

    Joined: 27 Sep 2004

    Posts: 13,305

    Location: South Yorkshire

    Just look in the back of evo they break the cars down into groups for you. :D