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What electric cars are actually available in the UK . . .

Discussion in 'Motors' started by stockhausen, May 21, 2020.

  1. Orionaut

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 7,694

    And that is the kicker for "Most" people.

    That is more than ten times what I have paid for any car/vehicle ever.

    My Last car (E36 1.9) cost £500 and has pretty much the same performance and range that it had when it was new. Baring a wright off level accident, I see no obvious reason why I shouldn't expect to get another ten years/100,000 miles out of it. (BMW has very good spares availability for older models, exceptionally so really, I can still even get cosmetic plastic trim bits for this car despite it being over 20 years old and most are not that expensive)

    My ability to pay significantly more for a car is not going to change and, while I may turn out to be wrong, I suspect that it will be most unlikely that I will ever have the option of buying a 20 year old Tesla for £500 (Or equivalent) at all ever, let along being able to do so and getting a vehicle that will have near enough the same performance and reliability that it had when it was new.

    For "Most" people, this is going to be the big problem with EV's. They are only likely to be an option for reasonably wealthy people who are in a position to buy new (Or at least newish) vehicles. And fairly expensive ones at that.

    Old EV's that are still in reasonable usable condition will hold their value, (eg https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2011-Nis...729472?hash=item2ae2cd43c0:g:wNQAAOSwabxeRkme And while I may have missed it somewhere, its not clear whether that one is even on a battery lease or fully owned)

    The ones that are as cheap as old ICE cars usually are will likley be really on their last legs and unusable in practice.
     
  2. WJA96

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 13, 2005

    Posts: 14,736

    Location: Norfolk, South Scotland

    VW Group have stated that they will have price parity with ICE cars by 2025. But they’re not getting any cheaper than today’s already extortionate prices. And sadly, “Most” people are going to have to get used to the fact that they’re being priced off the road. To an extent, it started with cars you couldn’t really service yourself without a machine with a direct connection to Wolfsburg, Stuttgart Or Munich and now you can’t swap out the batteries without a forklift and a 4-post lift.
     
  3. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 12,028

    Location: N.Warks

    Dunno why the price parity of new cars is relevant to someone who is concerned about the used value of EVs. The intrinsic value of of the battery means sub £1500 cars are likely to be a thing of the past.
     
  4. stockhausen

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006

    Posts: 10,715

    I would be inclined to agree except that I am absolutely astonished by the number of newish Porsches, Audis, BMWs, Mercedes, Range Rovers, etc. that I have seen parked up outside people's houses in the past two months, often huge SUVs with personalised number plates - where do people get the money to pay for these pointless monstrosities?

    My interest in EVs is largely based on the idea that the Government will eventually start to make ownership and use of them more attractive - at the moment they are not, they are status symbols. Manufacturers need to produce small, affordable EVs and the Government (or someone) needs to provide means to recharge them when away from home.
     
  5. WJA96

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 13, 2005

    Posts: 14,736

    Location: Norfolk, South Scotland

    Simply because right now, the cheapest Family EV is an MG, with a sat nav that doesn’t know where any chargers are. That’s poor. And even that’s £24,000. The price for one you probably actually want is £35,000. And that’s out of reach for the vast majority of new car buyers who would normally buy a new Focus or Golf for £20,000-ish or less. Price parity will mean that people who can afford a £20,000 VW Golf today will be able to afford an ID or whatever it is as well. Which is important because it means there will continue to be car sales of the same volumes we see now, so prices will decline in a similar way. And it’s not the battery that’s actually expensive.

    What makes electric cars expensive is the change cost. A big ICE manufacturer has long ago paid for the smelting plant that makes the cast metal blocks for the engines and the casings for the gearboxes. Now those plants will soon be scrap themselves. They will quite literally be useless in 20 years time. Engineers who devoted their entire working lives making things go bang 6500 times per minute now have to accept that what they know is only of interest to historians. And the engine and transmission are a huge part of the car. Someone has to pay for those engineers being being pensioned off or sent back to University to learn about magnets and induction.

    Take heart though, because in our lifetime there will still be plenty of ICE cars kicking about. So the £500 cars will still be there, they just won’t be electric. They’ll be diesels. There’s something to look forward to.
     
  6. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 12,028

    Location: N.Warks

    Look forward to diesel rotter. No thanks. The improved air quality of the last few months shows exactly what we might have to look forwards to.

    The large price of electric cars is the battery material cost, no opinion there - it’s fact. Typical car battery today is probably somewhere around the complete cost of a Ford Mondeo.

    Some manufacturers have only just recently opened their own engine plants and many buy gearbox’s from suppliers. EU7 etc is only going to push engine costs up and makes the idea of running one old even more frightening.
     
  7. Bug One

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 10,032

    Location: Sandwich, Kent

    Christ - when did Fred Dibnah join the forums?
     
  8. Surveyor

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 5, 2010

    Posts: 21,758

    Location: Somewhere

    The battery cost is circa £25k on a forty odd thousand pound car?
     
  9. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 12,028

    Location: N.Warks

    Yeah the cars are sold at 0% margin. Everyone works for free in magic factories with parts that they pick from trees. :D

    #willywonkaisntreal
     
  10. b0rn2sk8

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2003

    Posts: 5,418

    It’s about $130-$200 per kWh at the pack level, the smaller packs are more expensive to make per kWh. We’re lead to believe Tesla has battery cost the lowest by some margin.

    If you are actually considering a Kona, for the money I’d just stump up the extra for a Model 3. They are only bringing in top spec Kona’s Putting it just a few k from a Model 3 and there is a years waitlist. The model 3 is just a better package overall.

    There are quite a few cheaper offerings out there now though like the Zoe, Corsa, 208, 2008 etc but they are all in that 150-180 mile range category.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020 at 1:55 AM
  11. Fusion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 10,213

    Location: Notts

    We need a Tesla Model 2.
     
  12. Joe T

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2003

    Posts: 11,448

    Location: Northampton

    Plenty of smaller electric cars available to those who want one: Corsa-e, e-208, Zoe, for example. :)
     
  13. Matthew.M

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 3,179

    Location: Birmingham

    For those longer runs only a Tesla Model S Long Range comes close. The latest model (“Raven”) will do 400 Miles at 56mph and just under 300miles at 75mph.

    Rain and cold weather will dent that somewhat. But 300 miles should be fine if you’re willing to slow down to 65mph or so if conditions turn adverse.

    Not a cheap car, mind. But it is certainly possible.
     
  14. billysielu

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 9, 2009

    Posts: 11,553

    Location: Oxfordshire

    30k corsa no thanks
     
  15. Joe T

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2003

    Posts: 11,448

    Location: Northampton

    Less than 28k after grant, and it's a completely different car from Corsas of the past. :)
     
  16. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 12,028

    Location: N.Warks

    The biggest problem with the Corsa is it’s sister e208. Cos that looks so much better. :cool:
     
  17. Fusion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 10,213

    Location: Notts

    They're actually doing them for £24,222.
     
  18. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 155,439

    Because sometimes the requirement to do that is important - it doesn't have to be every day, but people don't want to lose that ability. Sometimes, if I get off a flight at Heathrow at 7pm, I want to drive straight home and not have a 45 minute charging break. I can currently do this. The fact that most of my driving is 100 miles or less isn't relevant - I also want the ability to cover ground without delay where reasonably possible.

    Which is why I wonder if a PHEV may suit my needs better for my next car.

    Most people want a car that can do everything that may want to use it for - I don't think its reasonable to say 'It does 85% of what you want, stop moaning'.
     
  19. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 12,028

    Location: N.Warks

    That might be the case if people were being forced to buy one, which they are not. The end.

    Also. The last thing I would want to do after a flight is 5 hour non stop drive!
     
  20. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 12,028

    Location: N.Warks

    So that it’s cheaper or does less range? It won’t be both.