1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What keeps the modern economy going

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by humbug, Apr 1, 2019.

  1. jsmoke

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 17, 2012

    Posts: 7,816

    I see what your saying, the problem is a lot of my political understanding came from the New Labour days who were really just a mix of everything, do what you want, do what you feel, do what you understand as common sense and sell yourself as socialists. I remember DC calling TB a Tory in disguise in PMQ's one time. So yep just make it up as you go along.

    I couldn't care less about the liberal/conservative stuff.
     
  2. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 2,747

    Yes combining them is consider bad practice but that's irrelevant as it doesn't change that the central banks ability to create money is derived entirely from government and it's the only organisation with that power, effectively it operates like all other independent government bodies such as HMRC, FSA, CPS, Ofgem, Ofsted, NCA, etc, etc.

    Technically the government doesn't raise money, that is if you're using it to refer to the act of collecting money so it can be spent, it borrows money from the central bank who it's bequeathed with the power to create money, all it's basically doing is moving the numbers from one ledger to another.

    You say if it was as simple as printing money they would have done that, but that's exactly what they did when the 08 financial crisis hit, they also did the same during WWII, they took the money that had been locked away in bonds and released it into the system before it was due, they effectively increased the supply of money out of thin air, they took money that wasn't meant to be in the system for another X amount of years and released it earlier than intended, they liquidated the bonds.
     
  3. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 7,172

    Capitalism is garbage. It's good only for individuals as President Donald Trump and several other billionaires and their families.
    Under capitalism, there are quite a lot of countries which suffer from degradation.

    The best system is: https://www.thevenusproject.com/resource-based-economy/

    A Global Holistic Solution: Resource Based Economy

    Global problems faced by mankind today are impacting individuals and nations rapidly. Climate change, famine, war, epidemics of deadly diseases and environmental pollution contribute to the long list of global challenges we, as humans, need to promptly address before an eventual catastrophe swiftly becomes inevitable.

    Regardless of political philosophy, religious beliefs, or social customs, all socio-economic systems ultimately depend upon natural resources, such as clean air and water, arable land, and the necessary technology and personnel to maintain a high standard of living.

    Modern society has access to highly advanced technologies and can make available food, clothing, housing, medical care, a relevant educational system, and develop a limitless supply of renewable, non-contaminating energy such as geothermal, solar, wind and tidal.

    It is now possible to have everyone on Earth enjoy a very high standard of living with all of the amenities that a prosperous civilization can provide. This can be accomplished through the intelligent and humane application of science and technology.

    Individuals and interest groups are governed by laws that demand maximum profit where possible. These laws are inherent in the monetary system prevalent in most countries today – capitalism. The basic principles of capitalism demand exponential growth at all cost causing financial cataclysms such as the 1929s Great Depression in the United States and the recent financial crisis of 2007-08.

    We are separated by borders and beliefs which make it impossible for us to arrive at relevant solutions while being divided ideologically. Most of our problems today are technical but we are still looking for solutions through political means. We need to accept that eliminating these global threats requires the employment of methodologies rather than personal opinions.

    “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
    ~ Albert Einstein

    The Venus Project proposes a holistic approach with a global socio-economic system that utilizes the most current technological and scientific advances to provide the highest possible living standard for all people on Earth. The proposed system is called Resource Based Economy. The term and meaning was coined by Jacque Fresco, the founder of The Venus Project.



     
  4. Doobedoo

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 24, 2016

    Posts: 2,012

    Location: South West

    https://www.hannenabintuherland.com...-imf-world-bank-dean-henderson-on-free21-org/

    Not sure how much it relates as it’s been quite since I’ve watched it but I’ll post it anyway.

     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  5. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 23,176

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    And yet, it's the most successful system in human history. No other economic model comes close.

    It works pretty damn well for me.

    I don't know what you mean by 'degradation', but I can tell you that before capitalism, people starved in droves, and the rich/poor divide was astronomical.

    Fantasist nonsense.

    (Source).
     
  6. Narj

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 19, 2010

    Posts: 11,949

    Location: London

    It's all a massive pyramid scheme. Just hope you're not old when the music stops.
     
  7. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 7,172

    One of the greatest minds of the human race Nikola Tesla died in misery, and forgotten by everyone.
    Stupid football players get wages of hundreds of thousands of pounds per week... more than most other people earn in their entire lives of hard work...
    Capitalism is garbage and is "successful" for two reasons - nothing else has ever been allowed, and the strong of the day enforce it upon us.
     
  8. Doobedoo

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 24, 2016

    Posts: 2,012

    Location: South West

    A successful product of Capitalism suggest that Capitalism needs major reforms.

    Hedge-fund billionaire Ray Dalio says capitalism needs urgent reform

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...alarm-on-capitalist-flaws-warns-of-revolution

    Sort of stating the obvious I wonder if he genuinely means what he is saying or merely just paying lip service.
     
  9. mid_gen

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 20, 2004

    Posts: 8,550

    Footballers earn as much as they do because capitalism enables so many people around the world to live lives so comfortable that they have the disposable income to spend on TV sports packages. A quality of living that people only a few decades ago could only dream of.

    There's a good argument to be made that capitalism is what has delivered us the first generations of Europeans to never have to fight a war. Ever.
     
  10. silvagti

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 10, 2013

    Posts: 1,686

    It's far from perfect but right now capitalism is the best system we've managed to create.

    You can talk about things like resource based economies but the issue with that it means consolidating power in the hands of the person or group who manage this distribution of resources. Historically consolidating power into the hands of a few people tends to result in bad things happening.
     
  11. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,836

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    A brilliant mind and a genius, yet clearly not smart enough to avoid a miserable death. He certainly hasn't been forgotten by everyone though.


    Who's stupid now then? 'Stupid' footballers who have worked out, together with media organisations, agents and global clubs, how to get paid millions of pounds for kicking a ball around.

    LOL. Pretty much everything else has been allowed before capitalism. Not many of them worked out too well for everyone.
     
  12. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 23,176

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    No. Tesla died at the age of 86, in a room he rented at one of New York's most fashionable hotels. He enjoyed levels of comfort only dreamed of by the average working class man in his time.

    No. Tesla received a state funeral, attended by thousands. His eulogy was read over local radio.

    (Source).

    Tesla was one of the most famous men of the 20th history, and an electric car company has been named after him.
     
  13. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 7,172

    I don't give a penny for TV sports packages ;)
     
  14. mid_gen

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 20, 2004

    Posts: 8,550

    And this is relevant to the discussion how?
     
  15. jsmoke

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 17, 2012

    Posts: 7,816

    The hedge fund people are genuine leechers and greed. Footballers, well that's all about the fans who are prepared to pay to watch, so don't don't go etc.

    Capitalism generates choice.
     
  16. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 7,172

    Capitalism generates hardship and inequality among people. Not based on just distribution of wealth and resources. It must be removed or heavily updated and modified.
     
  17. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,569

    Location: Cambridge

    It generates wealth unequally, which isn’t quite the same.

    Achieving equality at the expense of wealth creation seems like a step backwards.
     
  18. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,411

    What our current version of Capitalism has done is remove the notion of community and that to make a country work everyone is important.

    Refuse workers are more important than bank managers for society as a whole.
     
  19. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,569

    Location: Cambridge

    A person is worth only what it would cost to replace them.
     
  20. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,411

    There are some jobs people do not want to do but are vital for a town, hence my garbage example. Another in the news, maybe Brexit related is that the number of complaints about shoddy new builds have increased markedly. It is due, according the housing spokesperson, on a lack on skilled workers. I wonder if it is due to East Europeans going home?
    This is where your point falls down as the firms have not replaced skilled workers but allowed unskilled workers to do those jobs.