"What makes the least sense?"

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Being a scientist, I've always had a huge scepticism over peoples beliefs in their gods and religion (Yeah, its one of those threads... kinda). However, I seem to have come to a point in my studies where I'm just not sure what to believe at all, because what I am told are 'scientific theories' seems almost as ridiculous to me as religious explanations.

For example, take a peek at this. You proberly won't have a clue what its about but thats irrelevant:
http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/olc/dl/120080/bio28.swf

I completely get what that animation shows and understand it. However, I still find it mind boggling that such complex mechanisms are present at such a minute size (The width of DNA being close to two nano metres).

I've studied biology to greater depth than most people, yet I'm sure its those who are a bit lesser aware of such mechanisms that cry out "Pffft, religion! No way, science explains everything!". So I ask, what is more ridiculous, the information contained in the animation or "god created everything"?
 
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Nitefly said:
I've studied biology to greater depth than most people, yet I'm sure its those who are a bit lesser aware of such mechanisms that cry out "Pffft, religion! No way, science explains everything!". So I ask, what is more ridiculous, the information contained in the animation or "god created everything"?

Not a biologist so I couldn't tell you, but remember that not all religions believe that 'god created everything'
 
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cleanbluesky said:
Not a biologist so I couldn't tell you, but remember that not all religions believe that 'god created everything'
Yeah I know, I guess I was being over generalised. I just find that everyone seems quick to beat such religious thoughts down with 'textbook bashing' when I find it just as 'impossible' to accept it (even if I'm supposed to :p ).
 
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Nitefly said:
Yeah I know, I guess I was being over generalised. I just find that everyone seems quick to beat such religious thoughts down with 'textbook bashing' when I find it just as 'impossible'.

That's becasue science is in competition for 'authority of knowledge', so naturally it wishes to criticise the competition rather than admitting to possibilities
 
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cleanbluesky said:
That's becasue science is in competition for 'authority of knowledge', so naturally it wishes to criticise the competition rather than admitting to possibilities
I half agree. People who discover such 'theories' leave them as theories and nothing more. They accept that further study might show proof as to they are wrong. Its more everyday people (particuarly) on the internet that say things such as:

"Yeah, god really made all the animals. Havn't you heard of evolution? :rolleyes: "
 
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Nitefly said:
I half agree. People who discover such 'theories' leave them as theories and nothing more. They accept that further study might show proof as to they are wrong. Its more everyday people (particuarly) on the internet that say things such as:

"Yeah, god really made all the animals. Havn't you heard of evolution? :rolleyes: "

Its not only internet people - Dawkins quite recently made a TV programme denoucning God on the basis of evolution.

But then again, its not like the Pope is saying that evolution is possible is it?
 
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Evil-Penguin said:
Do you only find it mind boggling because of the fact that it is so small?
No. That just adds to the mind boggling-ness. Even if it was as big as a house it would still be very complex. This is just one of hundreds of facts that I find 'challenging'.
 
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cleanbluesky said:
Thanks, but no thanks! :D

I believe that what I am told in science IS the truth, dispite I find it difficult to get some concepts. I was more pointing out the hypocrisy that science does actually require a certain amount of faith to believe it is the truth and its not as easy to accept as many people would like to make out.

Besides, saving the world by day, drinking beer by night sounds exactly like my cup of tea.

(Don't take that last comment too seriously ;) )
 
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Nitefly said:
I completely get what that animation shows and understand it. However, I still find it mind boggling that such complex mechanisms are present at such a minute size (The width of DNA being close to two nano metres).?


Agreed.

The more I find out about neurobiology, the harder it gets to imagine that everything I see/do/hear is caused by an infinate amount of chemical actions and reactions.

Given just how complex and finely balanced, well, everything is, May as well say "god does it" and be done with it lol
 
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I don't think that it's strictly true to say that 'believing in' science requires faith. For a start, science is not a belief system - it's not a codified set of rules which you can choose to subscribe to or not, as religions are. It's an attempt to describe and make predictions about the natural world using the processes of repeated observation and hypothesis.

Even if you do want to consider science as a belief system, then I still don't think that it requires faith - at least, it doesn't require as much faith as following a religion. For example, I believe that a gene is a sequence of nucleic acids that code for a protein, that sequences of genes determine genotypes which produce phenotypical behaviour, that natural selection and random mutation operate on genes to produce evolutionary effects which in turn have led to the evolution of every species on this planet, including us. Ignoring the fact that I've probably demonstrated my ignorance regarding basic biology, I don't see that this requires faith, despite never having studied evolution in detail myself. I know that other, more intelligent people have studied it, and I trust that other intelligent people would have rushed to point out their flaws if there was a major problem with the theory. This may be faith, but it's faith backed up by a resounding amount of evidence.

Obviously there's always an element of wanting your theory to be right, but time and time again the scientific community has seen what was previously a pillar of thought torn down to be replaced by a more robust theory. As I see it, the effect of wanting is more prevalent in religion than in science - many religions exist to give people comfort, whereas science exists because of a relentless drive to understand, explain and predict.
 
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KingOfAquitaine said:
Given just how complex and finely balanced, well, everything is, May as well say "god does it" and be done with it lol
It may well be easier, but unfortunately people are rarely cured by doctors standing around and saying "It's okay, God created the illness so he'll probably remove it too. After all, the Lord giveth...".

Nah, I just don't see it.
 
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The difference is that many religions say "this is how it is" where as science should be saying "this is our best idea of how it is". Generally religion won't accept a new idea very easily but science accepts new ideas that are better and more accurate than previous ideas.
 
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Psyk said:
The difference is that many religions say "this is how it is" where as science should be saying "this is our best idea of how it is".
The key word there is 'should' ;). In fact the vast majority of scientists do say "this is our best guess" and there are only a very small minority who don't - and even when Richard Dawkins says that science and rationality has proven religion to be wrong (which he shouldn't do) he does put forward a VERY powerful case.

It tends to be idiots on message boards (from both sides of the argument) who treat science as a religion - i.e. religious nutjobs screaming that science is as much about faith as religion, and devout followers of science shouting that science is the only path to enlightenment when they don't have the first clue about what science is.
 
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