Soldato
Hydrogen definitely seems the best fuel for the future in theory, nice a green also.
What type of fuel in the future
- Thread starter mufc802
- Start date
Caporegime
I think it will come to a point were alternatives become the more economical choice so I doubt they will run out, I'm hoping because I love the sound of my alfa v6expensive to run but sooo worth it.
Fun at the weekends, but surely for a commute you want the most peaceful journey possible? I'm certainly looking forward to having a nice quiet refined electric car. The noise-seekers can keep a sports car in their garage for weekend hoons.
Miss quote,
i.e you pull in, fill up and drive out.
where as electric, you pull in, leave your car for 5 hours then pull out.
That's only true at the moment. It will change and people will get used to the new method. Mindsets aren't as hard to change as you make out, especially if the new method is better e.g. hot-swappable pre-charged batteries or on the move charging via em induction
.Renewable only gives you power when it's windy, you can't store excess and use it for later it has to be used there and then. It also requires massive subsidies to setup and to keep going (How the SNP plan to pay for that is up for debate, well everything the SNP say is up for debate as their figures are always spun to their favour).
The French has and have had the foresight for over ten years that Nuclear is the future, power on a tap for themselves. They've got a large experience pool that other country's want to now build thier plants. We already get our power from France and the Germans look to be going down the same route after the publics knee jerk reaction to the Fukushima disaster and Merkels desperate attempts to keep votes.
Renewable is good on paper but it'll cost us more per unit than Nuclear in the long run, if we want to have an electric fleets of transport, heat our homes and run our factories we're going to need loads of it and green just can't support that kind of infrastructure.
Caporegime
The above is true but the cost per unit is the price you pay for it a) never running out and b) being very clean. With nuclear fuel mankind will surely have the same problem in 1000 years?
As regards it has to be windy to generate the power, again true, but if you maintain a 'portfolio' of renewable sources you won't have all your eggs in one basket.
I guess I'm just hoping that technology will improve efficiencies in renewable energy to the point that it's viable as the primary energy source for this country. Not because I'm an eco-warrior, but because it could eventually be so cheap.
As regards it has to be windy to generate the power, again true, but if you maintain a 'portfolio' of renewable sources you won't have all your eggs in one basket.
I guess I'm just hoping that technology will improve efficiencies in renewable energy to the point that it's viable as the primary energy source for this country. Not because I'm an eco-warrior, but because it could eventually be so cheap.
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What energy supply do you use to make the Hydrogen?
Soldato
Long term - electric motor cars with varying storage medium (batteries, hydrogen etc). Unfortunately at some point the government is going to notice and start taxing electricity rediculously when they notice that fuel duty isn't bringing in what it used to.
At the moment batteries are more efficient than generating hydrogen. If you read up on the engineering the Tesla (for example) is rediculously more energy efficient in real terms than the FCX Clarity. The advantage of hydrogen is that refuelling is much more convenient. As well as having plenty of electrity for hydrogen generation, you also need lots of water. I can't see it being particularly handy in sub-saharan Africa for example.
At the moment batteries are more efficient than generating hydrogen. If you read up on the engineering the Tesla (for example) is rediculously more energy efficient in real terms than the FCX Clarity. The advantage of hydrogen is that refuelling is much more convenient. As well as having plenty of electrity for hydrogen generation, you also need lots of water. I can't see it being particularly handy in sub-saharan Africa for example.
Indeed, in 1992 the were 18000 petrol stations in the UK, today the are barely 8000, trying to replace ever more economical combustion engined cars with vehicles that can only manage short trips isn't going to go well.
Associate
Solar energy from solar panels? Wind or wave energy? Shouldn't be hard to arrange a plant to use one of these - maybe at the seaside to give a good supply of water. The plant could run energy neutral, producing hydrogen for cars and oxygen for medical use.
Caporegime
Gas turbine...
Soldato
bare feets
Electric here, for cars. But my older motors will run on pretty much anything if I want to take them out for a spin. Paint thinners, alcohol, stale petrol, gas... it'll be a bit like Mad Max for me 
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Electric it's a done deal. It's the future, it been decided. Laws and regulations exist and the switch over has started.
It's extremely hard to store as its so small and loves to leak, It's extremely poor storage size too energy ratio, it's energy intensive to create and it's just not going to be the future. Governments and EU especially have allready decided what the fuel off the future is.
They're allready installing on street charging in London, you can also do induction charging, which due to size is actually quite effecient compared to what's used in gadget technology.
And no the infrastructure does not exist for hydrogen. Using the petrol/oil infrastructure for hydrogen is useless. In comparison the national grid is allready being upgrade at a rate of 3bn a year to cope with renewable energy and EVs.
What's happening with hydrogen? No investment, no legislation, no way to produce it in quantity. Nothing.
The only thing hydrogen might be used for, is national grid storage.
Create hydrogen from excess grid energy, and it's much easier to store hydrogen in one place where size is not an issue.
It's extremely hard to store as its so small and loves to leak, It's extremely poor storage size too energy ratio, it's energy intensive to create and it's just not going to be the future. Governments and EU especially have allready decided what the fuel off the future is.
They're allready installing on street charging in London, you can also do induction charging, which due to size is actually quite effecient compared to what's used in gadget technology.
And no the infrastructure does not exist for hydrogen. Using the petrol/oil infrastructure for hydrogen is useless. In comparison the national grid is allready being upgrade at a rate of 3bn a year to cope with renewable energy and EVs.
What's happening with hydrogen? No investment, no legislation, no way to produce it in quantity. Nothing.
The only thing hydrogen might be used for, is national grid storage.
Create hydrogen from excess grid energy, and it's much easier to store hydrogen in one place where size is not an issue.
They are highly recyclable and as with any new tech it's allready falling in price and it also lasts longer than most people think. With huge warranties on them allready. Or do what Renault has done and you simply rent the pack, meaning you have no issues with such things.
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Soldato
It will be something that can be used from current fuel stations.
I don't think it's profitable for petrol stations to have charging bays and cars to be sat there for 6 hours and I don't think that the government would install individual charging points in every street in the country and having wires trailing along the pavement with their cars plugged into your homes electicity supply isn't the answer because everyone will start tripping over them claiming millions in compensation.
Therefore hydrogen is the answer.
I don't think it's profitable for petrol stations to have charging bays and cars to be sat there for 6 hours and I don't think that the government would install individual charging points in every street in the country and having wires trailing along the pavement with their cars plugged into your homes electicity supply isn't the answer because everyone will start tripping over them claiming millions in compensation.
Therefore hydrogen is the answer.
Soldato
Have you read any of the information presented in this thread about hydrogen?
Soldato
Hydrogen isn't the answer and it certainly can't be used in current petrol stations, without massive overhauls.
Also cables trailing every where wtf are you on about. 6h charging in stations? Again wtf are you talkin about.
Soldato
What I'm talking about is current electric cars take time to charge.
Everyone is in a rush to get somewhere and people won't wait around for their cars to recharge. What will replace petrol/diesel will be something that can refuel a car in a matter of minutes.
Doesn't take 6hrs. More like 20mins and that's current battery's and you wouldn't go to a station anyway.
Elecctric will replace fuel, it allready is. Go read the EU road maps, read UK legislations and schemes.
Read up on battery devlopment, read up on National Grid investment and future investment.
Then try finding anything near the same for any other fuel and you won't find anything comparable.
As I said its a done deal, so it's a bit of a pointless thread.
Elecctric will replace fuel, it allready is. Go read the EU road maps, read UK legislations and schemes.
Read up on battery devlopment, read up on National Grid investment and future investment.
Then try finding anything near the same for any other fuel and you won't find anything comparable.
As I said its a done deal, so it's a bit of a pointless thread.
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What currently available electric car (full sized not a radio control model) takes only 20 minutes to fully charge?
Hardly a done deal, there are very few electric vehicles on the road and there charging infrastructure is minimal at the moment. Add in the lengthy charging times and the limited range and it's not going to happen any time soon unless there is a revolutionary break though in battery technology (very unlikely).
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lol what?