What volume of water is there in your loop?

Soldato
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Thinking about reservoirs, and wondered what other people do. I have a very little one, but the loop holds about a litre and a half anyway. One loop here.

Roughly (or precisely would be good too :) ) what volume of coolant do you have in your computer?

edit: should have listed things in the loop, much like the replies. This is a 240 and two 120 feser radiators, ddc reservoir top and more tubing than is strictly needed.
 
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exactly two litres in my new system

thats with my tube res filled 10mm to the top

single loop

Pump1
Mosfet1
Mosfet2
CPU
NB/SB full cover block
4890 block
4890 block
EK 250 Reservoir
Pump2
Quad Radiator
Double Radiator
 
Best to have the least for the loop, less water goes round the loop quicker so quicker heat transfer out from what is in there

Is what i heard from an old pro ;)
 
prove me wrong :)

EDIT: so you have a huge res holding water that is doing nothing until it can go out into the rad before dissapating heat, rather than a shorter loop where said water goes through rad quicker losing its heat faster

Makes sense to me
 
Id expect less water to accelerate faster but stabilise at very close to the same flow rate. Doubt that this is an argument for small volumes of water. There might be something in avoiding reservoirs in that a body of stationary water with a jet flowing through it will exert drag on the jet. I'm also interested in fornowagain's thoughts on this.

Reason for question is assuming thermal equilibrium, greater mass of water means greater system heat capacity. I think this is a good thing, since processors don't tend to run flat out all the time. The delay in temperature change with load will mean the maximum temperature reached is lower.

Alternatively, with enough water, one might be able to turn the fans off for the duration of a film.

Do please keep the answers coming though :)
 
Wouldn't greater heat capacity mean being able to hold a higher heat for longer, as well as delay the effect of it heating up?

Surely with enough flow through a system (which is not a problem as you know with most modern watercooling systems) mean that greater heat with be disapated via the the rad cooling

I can however see your point Jon. Then again, since the water flows so fast through a WC system that the temperature doesnt change from point to point (CPU to GPU the system will equilbirate the temp) mean that the volume of water won't have enough of an effect to improve temperature?

I believe my point still stands, that the volume of flow will outlay the volume of water
 
prove me wrong :)
As you wish.

More volume just means more energy is required to raise the temperature of the medium. Eventually it will reach equilibrium and the loop temp will stabilise, it just takes longer to do so. What does make a difference is the mass flow rate taken in a 2 dimensional cross section. Which gives you the heat transfer across any block or radiator. Its makes no difference to the block/rad how much fluid is behind or in front of it volume wise, all that matters is the mass passing through it for any given second. That flow rate is determined by the pressure head of the pump and the losses from resistances in the loop.

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The mean heat transfer can be expressed as

dQ = m Cp dT

Heat transfer = mass x Cp x temperature difference

Cp, Specific heat capacity of pure water at 0.01 °C = 4210 J/kgK

For 2kg of water heated by a cpu at 200 J. Approx

Approx 200/8420 = 0.024C increase per second until equilibrium.

So if we doubled the mass, we halve the temperature increase. But it would still increase until heat in = heat out. Oh as an aside, the reservoir of water would also be radiating heat at a rate dependent on a lot of factors I wouldn't care to calculate, suffice to say it adds to the cooling effect. You could extend this to an extreme, a huge tank that takes hours to warm up and also radiates more from surface area than you are dumping in. But that still does not effect the flow rate in the loop, that's down to the pump, and the rate that heat can be taken out of the block or radiator. Moving on.

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Assume as in heat exchangers (rads & blocks) the fluid flow is continuously heated and therefore a rate applies.

W = dQ/dt = M Cp dT

Power = mass flow rate x Cp x temperature difference

where
Q is heat energy entering the coolant, once equilibrium is reached its the heat leaving the radiator in watts (W).
M is mass flow rate (density x velocity x cross sectional area)
Cp specific heat capacity (water is 4186 J/(Kg°C))
T2-T1, delta T, difference in temperatures from inlet to outlet for any block or rad etc.


Or basically the heat transfer is directly proportional to the mass flow rate. So if you increase the flow rate you increase the heat transfer. Now if you assume the cpu is dumping a constant heat load Q (dQ/dt is Watts or joules/second), then increasing the mass flow rate decreases the water deltaT.

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Example.

A computer WC rig with a flow of 2GPM & 7/16" bore. The water moves at 1.3m/s. A 250W heat load. Water at 22C has a density of 997 kg/m3 giving a mass flow rate of 0.126 kg/s, specific heat capacity for water is 4186 J/(Kg°C)

250 = 4186 x 0.126 x dT

Therefore dT = 0.473°C

If you doubled the flow to 4GPM? Fluid velocity increases to 2.6m/s, mdot (mass flow rate) increases to 0.251 kg/s.

Therefore dT = 0.237°C

So for the 250w going into the cpu block, say with a coolant inlet temp of 20C, the outlet is 20.47C. If you seriously increased flow by doubling it you only get a marginal improvement of 20.23C.

With these kinds of flow rate, once the system has reached equilibrium heat in = heat out, then increasing flow even doubling it does little. It also means the temperature anywhere round the loop varies very little, and all more flow does is reduce the slight deltaT's towards the equilibrium temp.

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Best to have the least for the loop, less water goes round the loop quicker so quicker heat transfer out from what is in there

Is what i heard from an old pro ;)
I believe my point still stands, that the volume of flow will outlay the volume of water

Let me explain. A lower total volume doesn't make the water go around quicker. For any given length of loop with or without a res (excluding losses from the res itself) the flow is the same and dependent on the pump head. Less volume means the same 'bit' of water goes round more often, but at the same speed. As the 'bit' of water passes the block it picks up heat and as it passes the rad it drops it. If you have a res, that 'bit' of water has to sit and wait in the res, but the queue of water 'bits' in front have been passing through the block at the same rate. The same amount of energy has been picked up and dropped. All that will have happened is that whilst waiting in the res the 'bit' of water will have dropped some heat to its neighbours and especially if its near the outside of the res. But generally the queue (res) isn't that big and the 'bit's of water don't hang around long enough (flow) to loose a lot.

Now maybe your old pro meant keep the loop short, which would indeed increase flow rates and improve heat transfer minutely. But, as I showed above the flow rates are so high generally as to make differences in deltas very small. Jon is correct, volume acts as a buffer to temperature variations, but considered over a reasonable period of time with a uniform heat dump and with such small reservoirs all things being equal the loop temps just level out.

Its like anything if you take it to extremes, a really long loop with a little pump will have low flow rates and therefore poor heat transfer. A giant reservoir will take an age to warm up and can absorb a huge amount of energy. But with these sorts of flows and res sizes the only way to improve cooling is to add more radiators/fans or improve the thermal resistance of the blocks.
 
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My 2 penceworth on the subject of res size is when I was researching my loop I was originally planning on getting one of those 18" long tube reservoirs thinking the bigger the amount of water the better, but when you sit and think about it for a minute the difference between that and the smallest tube res is going to be absolutely minimal. To get any real noticeable benefit from a pool of water in terms of taking a useful longer period of time to heat up to equilibrium you have to have a very large body of water, i.e. several buckets worth. So on that basis it is not worth the extra cost/space of going with these extra large reservoirs unless you like the look of them, the overall performance difference is insignificant. Infact if I was doing my loop over I would probably go with those Swiftech microres's, reservoirs are only a means of easy loop bleeding as far as I'm concerned, they play no part in extra heat loss or delayed temp increase, unless you get silly.
 
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Less than a litre - PA120.3, Ek150, D5 with ek top, xspc edge, ek s-max (NB)


As you wish.

Snip

I like the maths - but as before would ask that you keep the example to real life values. (2gpm is extremely high flow 4 is just silly)
0.75 and 1.5gpm would be more helpfull (and avoid using 1)

Infact if I was doing my loop over I would probably go with those Swiftech microres's, reservoirs are only a means of easy loop bleeding as far as I'm concerned, they play no part in extra heat loss or delayed temp increase, unless you get silly.

The micro res is excelent and avoids one of the two effect a res can have on flow/performance after bleading your loop.
Tall 'compensating reservoirs' are worth it is you use it correctly.

1) a body of water pushing down on the inlet AND outlet will affect flow (& presure I think).
for vertical mounted tubes - inlet should always be at top to stop this.
Shallow reservoirs (horizontal,inline or micro etc) do not have this problem.

2) A bubble in your res will reduce flow - as the water is not continous.
taller vertical tube res will partialy resolve this by the force of the res water pushing down on the outlet - And why the are call 'compensating reservoirs'
 
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Its just a number get over it. Oh and who uses one, thanks for the egg sucking lesson.

I'm not trying to cause offence, and really value your comments.
It not oftern someone backs up there statment with values.
But if you are going to use two numbers why not pick more approaprate ones. Everone a winner

Edit: sorry re-read my post above - didn't mean it so sound so sharp :(
 
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