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What's wrong with Italy?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by LabR@t, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. LabR@t

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 30, 2005

    Posts: 8,492

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47068401

    Fourth most indebted country globally !


    Do you think will be asked to bail then out?
    It's it just corruption or something else to blame for this mess, looks like it's going to be hard to get out of that hole.
     
  2. MadMossy

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 25, 2004

    Posts: 5,938

    Location: Sunny Torbaydos

    Bail outs are only worth while if they address the route cause of the problems to start with, otherwise they are just throwing good money away.
     
  3. billysielu

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 9, 2009

    Posts: 11,262

    Location: Oxfordshire

    The way out of the hole is inflation (a stealth tax).
    Irresponsible to put themselves in that position tho, same can be said for most countries.
     
  4. Caracus2k

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 4,582

    Partially down to a monetary but not very complete economic union with countries like Germany.

    If Italy had to maintain its own currency its value would be rather lower then the Euro and the cost of borrowing would adjust accordingly.
     
  5. Jokester

    Don

    Joined: Aug 7, 2003

    Posts: 38,747

    Location: Aberdeenshire

    Just a shame they don’t really have the fiscal tools anymore available to them for that.

    Keynesian economics could help about now as well I suspect.
     
  6. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 6,542

    Location: La France

    Italy will be bailed out as it would be too embarrassing not to after the ECB fudged the number to let Italy into the Euro in the first place.
     
  7. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,475

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Bailouts give wealthy investors an opportunity to divest themselves of the debt whilst it's socialised across the masses. That's vitally important. For wealthy investors.

    I recall a number of dubious projects under Berlosconi that were sinkholes for EU funding. There was a bridge project in particular if I could recall the details.

    In any case, I think it's similar to Greece - half fiscal irresponsibility and corruption, half EU policy that was set for Germany and France and our's best interests rather than the generally poorer Southern Europe regions.
     
  8. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,475

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Now that was done with Greece, I don't recall it being done with Italy. Are you misremembering or am I unaware of something?
     
  9. MadMossy

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 25, 2004

    Posts: 5,938

    Location: Sunny Torbaydos

    Which again relates to the route cause issues, if they were fiscally irresponsible and corruption is there, they need to address that before any form of bailout money will actually help where its needed. If the economy is tanking and there are no jobs, bailout money will do little to help those in need. The rich/wealthy will just continue to be rich/wealthy.
     
  10. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 6,522

    One of the problems with having a common currency is that it acts as an economic disparity amplifier. It is bad enough even here in the relatively small UK, but across larger regions such as the euro-zone and north America the effects can be devastating.

    Regions that perform well tend to do very well at the expense of the regions that do not perform quite as well.

    In the past variations in the exchange rates, inflation rates and interest rates of local currencies would even out these disparities over time and provide a corrective effect. But if you are tied to a common currency, this option no longer works.

    Successful regions suck the life out of unsuccessful ones and the greater the difference in performance, the greater the effective flow of economic prosperity.

    It is like the old Bible quote...

    "To those that have, more shall be given. To those that have not, even that which they have shall be taken away!"

    :(
     
  11. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 19,260

    Man... voting for populists, just works.

    Maybe stop being corrupt? Wait too much effort, let's blame the krauts instead or those brown people! That'll do it. Never ever blame yourself, don't even attempt to!

    [​IMG]
     
  12. jsmoke

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 17, 2012

    Posts: 7,182

    Dog eats dog bruv. Nasty world. All diicatated to by numbers in an account or coins in your hand.
     
  13. Mason-

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 18, 2010

    Posts: 5,087

    Location: Essex

    ?
     
  14. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,475

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Just because you've done it twice now, it's "root cause", not "route cause". Sorry - I know online that can come across as trying to correct people to look better, but I'm OCD as Hell and it's been bugging me.

    Sorry. And yes, I agree with you.
     
  15. Caracus2k

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 27, 2009

    Posts: 4,582

    No one mentioned 'brown people' in this thread before you and you were the first to use a derogatory racialised slang word in this thread.

    If you were trying to make a point about some supposed racism may I suggest you start by taking a look in a mirror?
     
  16. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 19,260

    The point was implied considering we're talking about a country that never ever considers itself up for blame, has a huge amount of corruption that no one really cares about and just voted for awkward weirdo populists who immediately pooped the bed when in power.

    Considering the current reasoning for such things, then i'm just making hard hitting factual commentary ;)

    Ultimately Italy's problem's are it's own first and foremost, with guys like Berlusconi wasting huge swath's of investment, it's no surprise to me that they haven't been able to take advantage of the EU.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  17. Uther

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 9,230

    In the famous last words of that bloke in Zulu, we're next boyo.
     
  18. Hades

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 22,478

    Location: Surrey and London

    We probably are. We've been in decline since the first world war. I've seen it even in my lifetime. It happens to all empires. Italy is a great example of a once great empire (the Romans) and now just a relegated economic failure. Spain is similar; again once an empire and now struggling.

    In my children's lifetime I expect to see the same for America.
     
  19. Roar87

    Soldato

    Joined: May 10, 2012

    Posts: 5,301

    Location: Leeds

    Why? America is full of hard working people who work very long hours, take little vacation and generally seek to better themselves; they don't feel entitled to government hand outs and understand that their success is generally in their own hands. Italy and Spain have completely different cultures, same with France really, they expect a lot from their government but also try to avoid paying tax, working long hours, and also want lots of days off. The UK is some where between the US and these countries which is why we fare better.
     
  20. Orionaut

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 6,522

    Very true. Americans work frighteningly hard, If you are ever going to have Americans as house-guests. be aware that they are typically Up and at-em by 06:00. Even if they have been partying the previous evening.

    Those that put in the effort can do very well for themselves. Even from very poor backgrounds.

    But it is also a very unforgiving society. If you do not make the cut, either from idleness or inability, you will end up in the gutter (Or Prison)!

    In many ways I would like the UK to be a bit more American, but perhaps I wouldn't want it to be quite so unforgiving for those that (For whatever reason) dont manage to make it.