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What's wrong with Italy?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by LabR@t, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,316

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Pretty damn certain that there's no racism in my comments about Italy's fiscal irresponsibility and the downsides of an intranational currency. And frankly I haven't seen it in anybody else's comments either. So no, point stands, you're the only one who started ranting about "brown people" and "krauts".

    Contribute or leave off.
     
  2. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,316

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Can confirm. Have worked both with Americans and in America. And whilst there are certainly sections of society that don't conform, my experience has been that Americans have a very strong work ethic. They're a little morally righteous sometimes and way too ******* polite, but the work ethic is strong there and they tend to be pretty self-sufficient in their communities as well. There's still a lot of "frontier spirit" in their culture.
     
  3. TheOracle

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 30, 2005

    Posts: 10,717

     
  4. peterwalkley

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 23, 2009

    Posts: 2,923

    Location: South Wirral

    Hmm ... so off the top of my head:

    - Tax dodging is the number one sport there: ten time more popular than football and horizontal jogging. Government thus has no money.
    - Very restrictive labour laws which make it practically impossible to sack people. End result: business weighed down by the lazy and/or incompetent, with little incentive to hire in the first place.
    - Poor schooling and higher education. No world class universities. Those that can, get their children educated abroad, many of whom likely never return as they see the grass is greener elsewhere.
    - Pension age stupidly low so that the working population is supporting a disproportionately high number of oldies. Exacerbated by Italians living quite long compared to other countries.
    - Endemic local political corruption.
    - Endemic local crime extorting business.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  5. Hades

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 21,733

    Location: Surrey and London

    Two reasons:

    1) There has never been an empire which does not contract eventually (I know the US is not an empire but it's large enough to be equivalent to one).
    2) They are giving all of their manufacturing away to China. They are then borrowing money from China to to buy those goods.
     
  6. krooton

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 9, 2004

    Posts: 24,532

    Location: Leafy outskirts of London

    I have worked for an American company for 6 years, and would never entertain the idea of working over there.

    I have had fantastic colleagues over the pond get the sack for no reason other than a restructure and the new Billy-Big-Balls swinging their weight around. The suddenly everyone else is suffering as proper talent is suddenly lost, but Billy-Big-Balls doesn't bear any of the responsibilty. You can be amazing at your job, but if you don't suck up and brown-nose the right people, you are constantly living in fear for your livelihood. Sod that.
     
  7. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 6,094

    Location: La France

    Would your employer be based in Cupertino by any chance? That all sounds horribly familiar.
     
  8. 200sols

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 1,622

    Location: Hampshire

    Its in the EU, the streets should be paved with gold :p
     
  9. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,316

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Sadly I've seen some similar cases where internal politics has seen good people terminated immediately for no reason other than to make way for someone else who's a friend of the boss. "At-Will" employment is de rigeur in the USA meaning no notice, no reason required. I can't give any more detail just in case, but pretty shocking to a European. How much American work ethic is a result of American termination practices I don't know. Not totally, I'm sure. But perhaps a factor.

    I still have American clients. Especially now what with the possibility of a sharp plunge in the pound. But I'm not sure I'd be inclined to work over there.
     
  10. LabR@t

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 30, 2005

    Posts: 8,482

    38bn hole in the next EU budget is going to do wonders for Italy and Greece.
    Ha.
     
  11. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 17,456

    A hole May has constantly reiterated will be paid, deal or not. Can you like attempt to not be a Ruble Rouser? It's actually stupid.
     
  12. Malevolence

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 21, 2011

    Posts: 11,958

    One could argue that going on about the Ruble in a thread about the Eurozone is equally as stupid.
     
  13. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 17,456

    Yet we have a malicious Russia attacking the EU/US at every corner, it's not stupid to call out someone's incorrect information, especially if it's source is probably suspect.
     
  14. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,535

    The empire was headed by Rome, which was a separate country back then. But the Roman empire didn't really die, it became a religion and you could say they are richer and more powerful now than they were back then :p

    Only that one payment as we leave, which is probably going to end up being some poultry amount over a very long period (because if the UK doesn't get a deal they aren't going to bow to any pressure to pay quicker). They will still somehow need to fill it every year from then on..
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  15. Slam62

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 3, 2006

    Posts: 7,175

    Location: Monaco

    Italy has had huge debt for a long time, when they had the lira cars cost millions and change came in the form boiled sweets.

    So I suppose they must have had inflation and rampant devaluation at some point as well. So of course they wanted to join a lovely new stable currency unfortunately they didn't manage to increase productivity at the same time. (Probably)

    Anyhow I'm sure Germany or the imf will do the honours
     
  16. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 5,249

    The problem of America is not how long workers work there. But how much these workers spend and what standard of life they want to maintain. They spend more than they earn. Debt rises.
    Italy the same - they can start spending less and start saving - the debt has to slowly begin to decrease.

    People also want to live, not just work. Vacations these days are criminally cheap. Why to work?! What for? A new car every year or so? A new house for every family member?!

    Look, these people work the most but they are still the poorest in the union:

    [​IMG]
    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/greeks-work-longest-hours-in-europe/
     
  17. d_brennen

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    Of course, how else could the Italians afford nice new German cars all round?
     
  18. englishpremier

    Soldato

    Joined: Feb 15, 2003

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    Location: Europe

    Why? I'd rather be like Germany. Good pay, good holidays, good welfare etc..
     
  19. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 5,249

    One is rough capitalism with strong enslave nuances, the other is more social pro-human type of system.

    Neither of which would make sense if we catastrophically ruin the Planet Earth ecosystems... there will be no place for anyone, anyway.
     
  20. LabR@t

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 30, 2005

    Posts: 8,482