1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What's wrong with Italy?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by LabR@t, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. TheOracle

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 30, 2005

    Posts: 10,717

    They must be doing something right
     
  2. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 38,316

    Mediterranean diet innit...

    Granted the processed red meat isn't so good but the fish, olives, salads etc.. are great.
     
  3. toshj

    Mobster

    Joined: Aug 11, 2009

    Posts: 3,094

    Location: E1

    Not worrying about their debt seems like a secret for long life.

    The country's corporate debt is both significant and risky, but sovereign debt has rocketed since the most recent government has take over. Their Non-Performing Loan and Unlikely-To-Pay debt piles are vast - across both single names and portfolios - and this is across virtually every corporate sector, from real estate to shipping. At a retail level the country isn't doing well, but to have such terrifying corporate debt and sovereign debt markets is a major problem.

    The fact that loads of hedge funds, private equity funds and asset managers have purchased Italian institutions in order to invest in distressed asset and special situations shows how significant a debt problem the country has.
     
  4. Diddums

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 24, 2012

    Posts: 17,385

    Location: London

    Anyone who enjoys olives needs to check themselves before they wreck themselves :mad:
     
  5. ScoTTyBEEE

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jun 1, 2004

    Posts: 1,935

    Location: London

    I used to prefer the black ones, but since my re-education have come to love all olives equally.
     
  6. Panos

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 9,210

    Location: NE Lincolnshire

    ECB cannot bail out. What it does is buying government bonds. The issue with Italy is "too big to fail", so Germany allows ECB to guaranteeing at cheaply the Italian bonds, keeping their prices low for when they need to borrow from the "markets".

    What happened to Greece was the biggest robbery in the world, and almost similar to the one used by Germany in WWII on Greece. (yeah the exuberant loan which Greece still hasn't been paid back by Germany yet).

    That describes how Greece had to find €230bn to throw money to it's German & French owned banks, to save them from the acidic assets their parents had transferred to them. Namely Deutsche Bank and Credit Agricole.
    Because neither Merkel nor Sarkozy could pass through their parliaments another €500bn bail out for Deutche Bank (already got 500bn 6 months before), and €120bn for Credit Agricole. So their damages was split between their children banks in Cyprus, Greece, Spain and Portugal.

    We were lucky at the same point in time, here in UK we had Alistair Darling. Who stick the fingers to the EU Commission and call their bluff of threats and punishment. (hope many here remember the headlines)
    Following the correct policies that were best for the UK of print cheap money, guarantee the depositors and nationalize the banks for cleaning up. Instead throwing money at the banks with never option to be returned.

    Had Alistair Darling followed the demands of the EU Commission, UK could have been in the position of Greece. As banks like RBS had damages many times bigger than the whole Greek economy and more than 50% of the UK debt at that point in time.
     
  7. englishpremier

    Soldato

    Joined: Feb 15, 2003

    Posts: 6,754

    Location: Europe

    I don't normally even like olives, but the green ones in Cartagena, Spain are amazing.

    Definitely a correlation though between olive growing European countries and economic difficulty.
     
  8. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,535

    The Italians living long lives are the ones which have been living out in the sticks for generations on farms etc. and eating home/local grown food. Not the city dwellers.
     
  9. pmc25

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 24, 2010

    Posts: 1,983

    The ECB won't bail out (or in) Italy on a large scale without wholesale sweeping reform of just about every corner of the Italian financial system.

    There are too many vested interests, corruption, and much too much political interference (at every level - local, regional & national) in financial institutions in Italy for anyone to help them out enough to make a difference when it comes to a true crunch.

    It's a byzantine dinosaur.
     
  10. 4K8KW10

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 5,249

    Conflicts everywhere :eek:

    France going against Germany for the North Stream II.
    Italy supporting the protests in France.
    UK out of the EU on March 29th.
     
  11. singularity

    Hitman

    Joined: Apr 2, 2007

    Posts: 583

    France have removed their ambassador from Italy in protest at Italy talking to the gillet jeunes

    Last time they did that was 1940......
     
  12. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,428

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    The usual Mediterranean maladies:

    * poor work ethic
    * poor corporate culture
    * high levels of corruption
    * high levels of public debt
    * low levels of accountability
    * economy dominated by small to medium businesses with low productivity and little incentive to innovate or improve
    * widespread assumption that 'the EU will bail us out if it all goes horribly wrong'

    The FT has a good article, if you want to dig into details.
     
  13. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,535

    Yea and hopefully we stay out of it all this time :p
     
  14. Panos

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 9,210

    Location: NE Lincolnshire

    Eurozone especially is in huge discontent and with Germany in recession things can go only worse.
    You see, if ECB (German controlled), starts printing money to prop up Germany, there is going to be an outcry across the whole eurozone, because at German insistence QE wasn't allowed on Cyprus, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland and now Italy.

    While all other countries are forced into very very tight austerity budgets approved only by the Eurogroup (the Finance Ministers of the Eurozone members states) and the Commission.
     
  15. CircleFaust

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 1, 2003

    Posts: 3,256

    yes i blame the sunshine, everyone wants to lay about and sunbathe like all the tourists they see every day :p
     
  16. Panos

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

    Posts: 9,210

    Location: NE Lincolnshire

    Don't bother, he is the typical ignorant person found in UK today. Probably reading Daily Heil also.
    All is good and shiny in Britain of 2019.... There are no foodbanks, there is no high debt or corruption, no poor corporate culture, and that BoE printed billions to bail out the economy is just a myth.
     
  17. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 21,428

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    * I live in Australia
    * I believe the UK is a mess, thanks to the Tories' mismanagement
    * I despise the Daily Mail, and never read it
    * you'd know all of this already if you bothered to read my posts

    Is there anything else you'd like to get wrong today?

    'Italy has the highest levels of corruption in Europe, study shows.'

    'Why can’t Greece shake its corruption problem?'

    'Greece Corruption Report.'

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  18. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 38,316

    Yeah the UK is in a terrible state, so terrible that when I look at bond yields I can see the rest of the world is happy to lend to us money for 10 years at around 1%... funny how when I look at Greek bond yields it is more like 4%.

    As an individual with a mortgage on a flat in London even I can borrow money at a lower rate than your country!
     
  19. GordyR

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 1, 2003

    Posts: 4,512

    Location: Essex

    Ummmm No... :confused:

    Once we have left, after the divorce payment has been paid, the hole is essentially plugged.

    Remember, with 65 million less citizens to worry about, the EU's costs reduce, because the UK ceases to be a recipient of any EU funding.

    Member sate leaves = Less administration and funding required = EU's costs lower.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  20. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 11,535

    Except the UK has always paid in far more than it takes out. So the EU is going to end up with less money to go around.