When are you going fully electric?

[WJA96]

In the 3 months I’ve had the M3 I’ve twice come home and grabbed my bag to head off on an ‘emergency’ and then had to wait for the car to get enough charge to get me to where I was going. It’s only when I’ve driven from say, Manchester and come back with 30% charge and I want to drive to - say - Portsmouth that it becomes an inconvenience. Generally it’s not an issue. And even when it was, it was just a matter of making sure the customer knew I would be there in 4 hours rather than 3. Sometimes I have to leave 30-40 minutes earlier than I would have with a diesel car and that’s part of the trade-off for having the company car rather than my own car and charging for mileage. I’ve also once had to rent a small van to move something I could have shifted in my old A6 but again, the company covered that cost.

You just have to be disciplined about planning your journeys and that’s hardly a bad thing.

I’ve already enquired about Planning Permission and I was told that as it helped to get more charging points into the area it would very likely be approved.

 

[WJA96]

Not really. The Zoe does, the Model S and X depending on year has 16kw AC charging or better. That's about it. Even bigger battery cars like the E-Tron only have 11kw AC chargers (from memory). I-Pace is only 7kw. Etc etc.

For everything faster the vehicles rely on DC charging, so this would seem pointless. 7kw is all you really need on an AC post.

Fair enough. DC charging could be an option but again, for anything over 7.4kW you need 3-phase power.

 

[Matthew.M]

Fair enough. DC charging could be an option but again, for anything over 7.4kW you need 3-phase power.

DC chargers are extremely expensive vs AC, as all the charging electronics are in the charger rather than the car. I can't imagine it would ever be viable on a private scale.

 

[WJA96]

I liaised with Polar-Chargemaster to get a free dual socket 7.2kW charging post installed at a local business premises who repair vehicles, it is only one with two sockets but it was to allow them to charge the cars for their customers of PHEV/BEV's and also due to where it is positioned can be used out of hours by other users with a normal Polar card/account.

It took a while to get approval and do all the back and forth, especially since it was a free unit supplied with no costs to the business, and need to prove it would be used and make some money for them in the long term. The option to go with a Ultra/Rapid charge is there as this was approved at the time, but they could not offer the full install at a low enough cost for now, as it was ~£35k for the whole job, and the business would have had to cover almost 50% of it. There is also the option to have additional fast chargers as the supply is 3-phase on site.

Ive got a decent costing to do everything with the 3-phase supply, moving our existing Tesla chargers to the 3-phase wiring, adding 2 disabled size 5m x 3m parking bays and a Chargepoint 4300 2 x 22kW charger and it’s £9000-£11000 depending on how nice I want to make the parking bays. And then I’d need to set up the financial charging infrastructure. It’s not ludicrous. In some ways there is definitely some man-maths and a bit of in-company willy-waving and at the end of the day 11kW charging will be faster than 7.4...

 

[WJA96]

DC chargers are extremely expensive vs AC, as all the charging electronics are in the charger rather than the car. I can't imagine it would ever be viable on a private scale.

Indeed - @Journey posted above that he was looking at £35K to install what I assume is a 75 or 150kW charger. That’s clearly not going to happen. But if prices drop and demand picks up, if I have the 3-phase supply I can review the situation.

 

[Journey]

Ive got a decent costing to do everything with the 3-phase supply, moving our existing Tesla chargers to the 3-phase wiring, adding 2 disabled size 5m x 3m parking bays and a Chargepoint 4300 2 x 22kW charger and it’s £9000-£11000 depending on how nice I want to make the parking bays. And then I’d need to set up the financial charging infrastructure. It’s not ludicrous. In some ways there is definitely some man-maths and a bit of in-company willy-waving and at the end of the day 11kW charging will be faster than 7.4...

I really like the Chargepoint options, and looked at the 4300 as well. It was only by chance that I spoke with BP Chargemaster and explained the situation, and it went from there after they said they could offer a reduced cost or free option depending on the survey(s).

I think Chargepoint have option built in for the setup and fees for charging users as well, RFID/NFC, tap to charge etc. Lots of options, I am pretty sure it is worth calling them about it if you haven't already.

Which orientation can you have the parking bays? Horizontal to where the charger is makes sense for cars with the charging flap on either side, but when it is at the front it's not as nice, obviously the space you have allocated may already dictate the layout, but there seem to be way more cars with flaps installed where you'd find a normal fuel filler cap.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

If you are looking at getting multiple chargers going at the same time I expect you’ll be looking at a 3 phase supply either way.

A typical domestic property has 100A available, that will only just run 3 chargers at full tilt with no overhead for anything else. While more is possible it depends on the grid in your street.

 

[WJA96]

I really like the Chargepoint options, and looked at the 4300 as well. It was only by chance that I spoke with BP Chargemaster and explained the situation, and it went from there after they said they could offer a reduced cost or free option depending on the survey(s).

I think Chargepoint have option built in for the setup and fees for charging users as well, RFID/NFC, tap to charge etc. Lots of options, I am pretty sure it is worth calling them about it if you haven't already.

Which orientation can you have the parking bays? Horizontal to where the charger is makes sense for cars with the charging flap on either side, but when it is at the front it's not as nice, obviously the space you have allocated may already dictate the layout, but there seem to be way more cars with flaps installed where you'd find a normal fuel filler cap.

Yes, I have discussed the options with Chargepoint and they do indeed have a fully integrated cloud payment system but everyone wants a cut and there really isn't any profit if you pay someone else to do all the work. I think my charging model would have to be something like 'secure parking space for £10/day with free electric car charging'. And I just don't see it flying to be honest.

And to make the planning as straightforward as possible I need to make the parking bays accessible so I can really only fit in 2.

 

[WJA96]

If you are looking at getting multiple chargers going at the same time I expect you’ll be looking at a 3 phase supply either way.

A typical domestic property has 100A available, that will only just run 3 chargers at full tilt with no overhead for anything else. While more is possible it depends on the grid in your street.

We already have 3 Tesla chargers set up in Load Sharing mode and they do indeed slow down to about 5kW if they all run at once. So I think you're very right - we'll need 3-phase anyway.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

That cabling to you have feeding those chargers? Even 3 at 5kw is pushing 65A which is more than I would expect if they were daisy chained off a single line.

Pretty nice set up either way.

 

[WJA96]

It says 10mm on the invoice.

And there are 2 cables coming off the consumer unit and then a smaller consumer unit in the garage feeding the chargers.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

That makes sense, just not the typical install you tend to see.

 

[Joe T]

To be fair even though i have a garage with a car in it i don't park our daily cars in it, they live outside on the driveway so when i get a charger it'll be on the outside of the garage so i can see why people want something nice looking.

I would probably make a nice case for a cheaper charger myself though if i wanted something that fit in more with the house.

Could always stick a cabinet around a regular charger. But if the cost doesn't mean that much, then those Andersen chargers look fantastic. Assuming the gallery photos are representative of the finished job, it's not just a more expensive charger; they've hidden all the external cables for the ~£500 extra over the cost of a tethered Rolec.

There aren't many reasons to not go tethered now really. All recent cars use the same charge connector, and that isn't likely to change.

Thanks both for the useful feedback. I think there's definitely a gap in the market for an affordable charger that doesnt look like a piece of plastic tech, and that will suit the more mainstream audience that electric cars attract over the coming months and years.

Interestingly I found out that a family member is also looking at the same chargers for the same reasons today, purely coincidentally!

 

[WJA96]

As part of a business I’m involved in we fit panel antennae for WLAN and 4G/LTE. These antennae are typically white or beige and quite big. And customers hate the look. So we wrap them. At cost, obviously. We take a picture of the wall or surface before the panel annptenna is installed and then we use a company in Oxford to print a vinyl wrap For the antenna. And they literally just blend into the background. It’s not cheap (we charge £100 and there is very little margin that) but it’s vehicle grade vinyl wrap and we’ve never had to redo one in 3 years.

 

[Joe T]

As part of a business I’m involved in we fit panel antennae for WLAN and 4G/LTE. These antennae are typically white or beige and quite big. And customers hate the look. So we wrap them. At cost, obviously. We take a picture of the wall or surface before the panel annptenna is installed and then we use a company in Oxford to print a vinyl wrap For the antenna. And they literally just blend into the background. It’s not cheap (we charge £100 and there is very little margin that) but it’s vehicle grade vinyl wrap and we’ve never had to redo one in 3 years.

Interesting!

 

[WJA96]

We've wrapped conduit, access points, security cameras. All sorts.

 

[bimbleuk]

That's what I was thinking. Thanks. Going wait and get one later.

They have a minimum 3 year warranty under the grant so depends on when you want to make the jump. I can't image the grant being increased and the "chargers" aren't getting cheaper as they add more smart features.

My "charger" for example is not smart so is really just a fancy switch with surge and leakage protection as the charging circuitry is usually in the car. I've had the RCBO module trip a couple of times. First time being a complete Noob I didn't realise I could reset it by pushing firmly down on the lever and ordered a replacement which I fitted myself. So now I have a spare but it's been in use daily for 2 years.

 

[pcfarrar]

Fast chargers getting installed at McDonalds:

https://instavolt.co.uk/mcdonalds-p...eAq8O9LchyGAlXCONFkYTqaKLok5a5WeqrTzjGbrXyNg4

 

[Russinating]

Free for customers and I'll be interested! Although they are 35p/kW so not the most expensive but also not the cheapest around either.

 

[jpaul]

35p/KW and m3~ 250W/mile ~ 9p/mile - versus a 50mpg ice ~ £5/gall ~ 10p/mile

yes that would be a bit soul destroying ... like having to perpetually pay Shell/Vpower petrol prices