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When are you going fully electric?

Discussion in 'Motors' started by Ricochet J, 23 Aug 2018.

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  1. lordrobs

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Sep 2003

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    Location: Norwich

    Getting old now...
     
  2. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Mar 2010

    Posts: 15,555

    apparently.
    can't see any details of that concern V

    https://assets.publishing.service.g...hment_data/file/1026655/net-zero-strategy.pdf

     
  3. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: 20 Jan 2005

    Posts: 41,649

    Location: Co Durham

    6% might be a tall ask for some manufacturers by 2025. They are going to have to release a lot more cheaper BEVs if they want to get to that figure.

    Once you exclude all Tesla's and Polestar sales then we arent even close to 6% across the board yet. And September 2021 probably gave some false figures as manufacturers dont seem to have either had the same issues with chips for EVs or they were prioritising BEVS over ICE cars. We had three hybrid cars delayed from September delivery. Hence car sales were down 29%. I suspect if we had no delays, I suspect almost all of those missing 29% cars were either hybrids or ICE cars.

    And particularly every ICE car has some form of electrical assist now and are classed as MHEV so dont count as ICE cars anymore then no surprise the number of ICE cars registered fell by so much.

    Some car manufacturers will have to double their BEV sales every year until 2025 to hit that target.

    Perhaps some car manufacturers will have to restrict their hybrid/ICE car sales in order to hit it?
     
  4. b0rn2sk8

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 9 Mar 2003

    Posts: 9,260

    They are already restricting ICE car sales to meet EU fleet emissions targets.

    This is back from 2019 https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mazda/mx-5/108701/mazda-mx-5-facing-reduced-engine-volume-in-2020?amp

    The priority of BEVs is two fold and it’s not all about emissions, the other is margins. They can sell every BEV they make quickly for a decent profit because the demand is far outstripping supply and did so prior to COVID. Manufacturers are making good margins on BEVs right now with all the incentives out there for them and battery prices are a fraction of what they were just 5 years ago.
     
  5. RoboCod

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    So sorry.
     
  6. RoboCod

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Jun 2004

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    Location: On the Amiga500

    Interesting discussion on radio 4 today about how the oil industry and petroleum production in particular is subsidised so heavily through licences and government funding, it's in contrary to their green carbon free stance. I didn't catch the figure but it was either £30bn or £300bn... Sounds like we could afford to lose that tax we glean through ICE ownership after all though.
     
  7. Greebo

    Caporegime

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    Location: Co Durham

    Fair point but the 6% target by the UK may well kill off some models altogether from coming to the UK.
     
  8. b0rn2sk8

    Sgarrista

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    So? If manufacturers actually supplied decent EVs, they’d probably sell every single one. The issue is certain manufacturers haven’t delivered decent BEVs in their mainstream segments and that isn’t the customers fault, the demand is there at the end of the day.
     
  9. ianh

    Soldato

    Joined: 12 Jul 2007

    Posts: 6,235

    Location: Norfolk.

    It'll be interesting to see how it gets upto 2030 as bigger and bigger batches of electric cars probably would need to be scrapped due to the economical cost of replacing the entire battery cells (approx 10 year life), plus seeing what ever recycling scheme is available for all those millions of dead battery packs.

    I'm in no way "anti-EV" but I do wonder just how eco-friendly the current batch of battery-only powered cars will eventually turn out to be once the whole life cost to the environment is calculated (build, use, scrap) - just how much better for the environment were they over ICE cars?
     
  10. b0rn2sk8

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    The only issue with your post is suggesting the battery is only good for 10 years when in reality the battery will outlast the car which on average is only around for 12 years.

    Will some cars need total pack replacements? Almost certainly and that’s no different to ICE cars needing an engine replacement. There isn’t anything stopping you repairing smaller pack faults at a module level or using a salvaged pack from a crashed car like you would with an ICE.

    In reality most old cars get broken down/scrapped because they are either crashed, the body is no longer road worthy due to rust or the drivetrain is no longer economical to repair.

    It’s unlikely batteries will be recycled when they are no longer useful in a car. They will be far too valuable and will be put to a second life like static storage where power density isn’t really a concern (like a home battery or grid storage).
     
  11. Greebo

    Caporegime

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    Location: Co Durham

    I agree thats not our fault, I was just pointing out some manufacturers are going to struggle to hit that target because they have been slow at developing BEVs and have just pushed out hybrids so they meet the EU co2 targets. Some manufacturers will have to reduce their range to the UK.

    And so far there has hardly being a massive amount of cheap BEVs for people to buy. When you look at the choices for under £25k the range isnt great

    https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/electric-cars/168678/top-10-cheapest-electric-cars-2021

    And not everybody can afford £40k cars.
     
  12. b0rn2sk8

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    Stellantis have most of their most popular cars in a BEV form now and before the great supply apocalypse you could pick up a new (pre ref) Corsa-e Elite for £20k. Not a chance these days. That said you can still get a brand new Zoe for £250 a month which is basically the sweet spot for people buying ‘affordable’ new cars.

    Like I said, good margins are being made right now and there is lots of scope for prices to come down if supply ever increases. Most BEVs only come in the higher spec versions which adds to the issue.
     
  13. _Jimlad_

    Capodecina

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    Location: Southampton

    I just took delivery for a VW id3, what's the best app for finding Charging stations ?
     
  14. Journey

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    Location: West Midlands

    Zapmap is one of the best, but it is always wise to have an alternative. A better route planner is also good.
     
  15. lordrobs

    Capodecina

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    I often see this mentioned but I wonder how viable that will actually be? Will large companies really want a mix of different batteries from various manufacturers of various states of degradation? On the flip side will individuals really know how to approach turning their decade old Hyundai Ioniq into storage for solar or cheap tariff scalping duties? Massive opportunities though for companies to set themselves up to be ready to re-use and recycle the cells if it is viable. I'm sure the vehicle manufacturers would happily hand over the recycling obligations if they could do so so it would be win-win for both parties.
     
  16. chanjy

    Mobster

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    Yes, almost 100% of material in batteries are recyclable in the longer term once they become useless
     
  17. _Jimlad_

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    Location: Southampton

    thanks will download !
     
  18. _Jimlad_

    Capodecina

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    Location: Southampton

    does anyone here have a iD3 ? mine turned up yesterday, did not test drive or even see one as i ordered via work :D

    any tips or advise ?
     
  19. Yaayuh!

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    Right pedal = Go
    Left pedal = Brake
    Round thing = Steering
     
  20. b0rn2sk8

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    It’s already happening, the cells are commodity products at the end of the day and cars are produced in their millions.

    https://electrek.co/2018/06/29/niss...large-energy-storage-johan-cruijff-arena/amp/

    https://www.edie.net/amp-news/6/BMW-opens-energy-storage-facility-built-from-used-EV-batteries/

    There was another in Europe where they have decommissioned an old fossil power station and used its beefy grid connection to fill the site with old EV batteries but I wouldn’t find the link. Also bear in mine that it’s only really now that the very first Leafs off the line are coming to the end of the cars life, same for the original Model S. the du both launched about 10 years ago in tiny volumes.

    You only need 100 old model S packs and all of a sudden you have 1MWhr of storage.

    A full model S 100kwh pack would last me about 7-8 days of house usage completely off grid (gas heating).