When are you going fully electric?

Soldato
Joined
11 Oct 2005
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Manchester, UK
I do worry about battery degradation as we've ended up doing a lot more mileage in the corsa e than I ever imagined. I reckon it will average about 18k a year.

I plan on keeping it for as long as possible, ideally 10 years +, so it will be interesting to see what state its in with 200k on the clock.

It's liquid cooled and has got better thermal regulation than the leaf, so I'm hoping it still has 80%+ capacity at 200k.

Realistically, there's so much less potential for uneconomical bills being thrown up with an EV, that getting to 200k should be a much less stressful experience than with an Ice car. I just hope the lol vauxhall build quality doesn't make it fall apart before then.
 
Soldato
Joined
21 Oct 2012
Posts
9,207
Location
London/S Korea
I do worry about battery degradation as we've ended up doing a lot more mileage in the corsa e than I ever imagined. I reckon it will average about 18k a year.

I plan on keeping it for as long as possible, ideally 10 years +, so it will be interesting to see what state its in with 200k on the clock.

It's liquid cooled and has got better thermal regulation than the leaf, so I'm hoping it still has 80%+ capacity at 200k.

Realistically, there's so much less potential for uneconomical bills being thrown up with an EV, that getting to 200k should be a much less stressful experience than with an Ice car. I just hope the lol vauxhall build quality doesn't make it fall apart before then.
I would have thought the other way around. A lot less small bills but a very big uneconomical one being a battery replacement. If they really can last 200k and be at 80% life left that would be good.
 
Associate
Joined
26 Oct 2007
Posts
800
I do worry about battery degradation as we've ended up doing a lot more mileage in the corsa e than I ever imagined. I reckon it will average about 18k a year.

I plan on keeping it for as long as possible, ideally 10 years +, so it will be interesting to see what state its in with 200k on the clock.

It's liquid cooled and has got better thermal regulation than the leaf, so I'm hoping it still has 80%+ capacity at 200k.

Realistically, there's so much less potential for uneconomical bills being thrown up with an EV, that getting to 200k should be a much less stressful experience than with an Ice car. I just hope the lol vauxhall build quality doesn't make it fall apart before then.
Look at it this way.
What would 200k miles of diesel/petrol cost over that time.

200000miles at 50mpg = 4000 gallon
£6 gallon ×4000 = £24000.

24k - whatever your electric would cost for charging, and there's your money towards a new car

All numbers rounded off for my pea brain.
 
Soldato
Joined
9 Mar 2003
Posts
10,585
Less the £6k extra the corsa E would have cost to buy over a regular one but yes, it’s way cheaper in terms of total cost of ownership if you hold onto it. :)

I wouldn’t be overly concerned on the battery degradation front. The original leaf didn’t have the best chemistry, the best BMS, any thermal management and it was a tiny pack meaning you it cycle twice as often for the same number of miles compare to the corsa.

The Tesla Model S from the same era fared much better and nearly all of them have 85%+ of their original capacity remaining and there are bucketloads of 200k+ examples out there now.
 
Soldato
Joined
21 Oct 2012
Posts
9,207
Location
London/S Korea
Less the £6k extra the corsa E would have cost to buy over a regular one but yes, it’s way cheaper in terms of total cost of ownership if you hold onto it. :)

I wouldn’t be overly concerned on the battery degradation front. The original leaf didn’t have the best chemistry, the best BMS, any thermal management and it was a tiny pack meaning you it cycle twice as often for the same number of miles compare to the corsa.

The Tesla Model S from the same era fared much better and nearly all of them have 85%+ of their original capacity remaining and there are bucketloads of 200k+ examples out there now.
Just not this one :D
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Nov 2006
Posts
22,121
Only 8 years old and already needs new batteries, for more than the car is worth! Lol so much for them lasting longer than an engine. It was always BS claim.

Ironically it would be cheaper to do a V8 swap.
 
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Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
19,845
Only 8 years old and already needs new batteries, for more than the car is worth! Lol so much for them lasting longer than an engine. It was always BS claim.

Ironically it would be cheaper to do a V8 swap.
It's real, defo real, no click bait in that video there!

Insane Tesla Model S EXPLOSION!! 30kg of dynamite!

Probably will earn more from the views on YT, FB, TT and the media exposure, than the car was worth new. It was really INSANE !!! :rolleyes:
 
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Associate
Joined
2 Nov 2018
Posts
110
On battery degradation I'd assume most would just stand pat and adapt. If you do long commutes sell it on or make it the second car, give to kids/relatives etc

I did above average commutes at 160miles a day. Only if SoC ever caused commute issues outside of warranty would I consider replacing batteries.

Wonder if solid state battery platform will be backwards compatible and plug and play. If so could be some huge quality of life improvements for older cars as prices come down
 
Soldato
Joined
29 May 2006
Posts
4,814
Only 8 years old and already needs new batteries, for more than the car is worth! Lol so much for them lasting longer than an engine. It was always BS claim.

Ironically it would be cheaper to do a V8 swap.
Fixing the battery's would not have cost more then the car is worth not by a long shot. Its not like the battery being dead after 8 years is normal this was a rare event that was caused by water damage and the only reason that wasn’t covered was because he voided the warranty with modifications and opening up the battery outside an authorized engineer. If this happened to a normal user’s battery it would have been fixed for free.

This entire event was a stunt that made enough revenue just from adverts alone to buy a new Model S’s.

Plus the people who said the battery will outlast the life of the car they said the reasonable life of a car is about 10 years meaning the battery's on the whole are expected to last over 20+ years. Just like with an ICE engine there will be a small amount that fail early.
 
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Soldato
Joined
22 Nov 2006
Posts
22,121
Fixing the battery's would not have cost more then the car is worth not by a long shot. Its not like the battery being dead after 8 years is normal this was a rare event that was caused by water damage and the only reason that wasn’t covered was because he voided the warranty with modifications and opening up the battery outside an authorized engineer. If this happened to a normal user’s battery it would have been fixed for free.

This entire event was a stunt that made enough revenue just from adverts alone to buy a new Model S’s.

Plus the people who said the battery will outlast the life of the car they said the reasonable life of a car is about 10 years meaning the battery's on the whole are expected to last over 20+ years. Just like with an ICE engine there will be a small amount that fail early.

The average age of the cars across Europe is something like 25 years old. It's been getting older as cars got more expensive (and EVs are mega overpriced still).

If an engine dies you can find good used ones pretty cheap. You can't find used battery packs cheap, as any "cheap" ones will likely have been removed because they are knackered. Also Tesla will ban it from using their chargers if they find out someone other than them repairs one of their cars! They pretty much have you over a barrel and I'd rather own a Range Rover out of warranty than a Tesla.
 
Associate
Joined
26 Oct 2007
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800
The average age of the cars across Europe is something like 25 years old. It's been getting older as cars got more expensive (and EVs are mega overpriced still).

If an engine dies you can find good used ones pretty cheap. You can't find used battery packs cheap, as any "cheap" ones will likely have been removed because they are knackered. Also Tesla will ban it from using their chargers if they find out someone other than them repairs one of their cars! They pretty much have you over a barrel and I'd rather own a Range Rover out of warranty than a Tesla.
Are you sure it's 25 years old?
https://www.acea.auto/figure/average-age-of-eu-vehicle-fleet-by-country/

Key observations
  • EU cars are now on average 11.5 years old. Lithuania, Estonia and Romania have the oldest fleets, with vehicles older than 16 years. The newest cars can be found in Luxembourg (6.5 years) and Austria (8.3 years).
  • The average age of light commercial vehicles in the EU is 11.6 years. Among the EU’s four major markets, Spain has the oldest van fleet (13.0 years), followed closely by Italy (12.6 years).
  • Trucks are on average 13 years old in the European Union. Aged more than 21 years, Greek trucks are the oldest in the EU. The newest trucks are in Austria (6.4 years).
  • The average age of buses on EU roads is 11.7 years. The oldest buses can be found in Greece (19.9 years), while the newest ones are in Austria (4.8 years)

Heres another website just in case the first was biased.
https://www.confused.com/car-insurance/average-cars-around-the-world

And if you wanted a 2 year old electric motor for say a nissan leaf 40kwh, it's yours for £2,400
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363412793269?fits=Car+Make:Nissan|Model:Leaf&hash=item549d1727b5:g:UkIAAOSwiSpgr2dS&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338464578&customid=SI_nissan+leaf+engine&toolid=10049

Battery for a 40kwh leaf is 4k to replace.
 
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Soldato
Joined
29 May 2006
Posts
4,814
The average age of the cars across Europe is something like 25 years old. It's been getting older as cars got more expensive (and EVs are mega overpriced still).

If an engine dies you can find good used ones pretty cheap. You can't find used battery packs cheap, as any "cheap" ones will likely have been removed because they are knackered. Also Tesla will ban it from using their chargers if they find out someone other than them repairs one of their cars! They pretty much have you over a barrel and I'd rather own a Range Rover out of warranty than a Tesla.
The average car age is 11.5 years old and much less in the more developed county's some under 7 years. EV's last over 11.5 years and battery's seem to last over 20 years or over 150k miles so no problem there. There is no reason why some EV's wont still be working in 20years.

Battery backs are deigned to be replaced and its no problem to fit a new battery pack. One can even trade in the old battery pack to get credit off the new one. Or you we can buy a 2nd hand pack though I would prefer upgrading to a new pack for the extra range.

But the major factor is needing to replace the battery pack is rare. The battery pack will almost always outlive the reasonable expected life span of a car. Not many people use a car past 150k+ miles. Replacing engines or battery packs are going to be the exception rather then everyday.
 
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Soldato
Joined
29 May 2006
Posts
4,814
Guys you are giving him a lot of airtime, it’s pointless and the reward just doesn’t materialise. It’s like talking to a block of wood, his views are so ingrained.
We all know how old fashioned he is. The goal isn't to change his viewpoint its to correct the misinformation they spread so people don't get mislead.
 
Soldato
Joined
14 Dec 2003
Posts
5,172
Gotta learn to ignore the troll guys

Anyway in actual EV news, we replaced the Zoe with an e-208. Lovely little thing even though it's not on a dedicated EV platform. Feels 2 generations newer inside :D
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
19,845
If an engine dies you can find good used ones pretty cheap. You can't find used battery packs cheap, as any "cheap" ones will likely have been removed because they are knackered. Also Tesla will ban it from using their chargers if they find out someone other than them repairs one of their cars! They pretty much have you over a barrel and I'd rather own a Range Rover out of warranty than a Tesla.

Battery for a 40kwh leaf is 4k to replace.

You don't need to replace the whole battery pack - just the dead cells, which will cost a few hundred pounds. There are plenty of YouTube videos which shows how the process works.
 
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