When are you going fully electric?

[Bug One]

Top gear item on model3 last night which raised interesting point about Model3 acceleration at higher speeds; over half mile trial M3 and their 'AMG' were spitting distance- was curious about 50-70 overtaking ... the important bit -
and according to below 2.8s versus 4.1 in either a 250bhp audi/bmw automatic, or 8s in a similarly powered manual vw GTI ... manual time was a surprise
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/acceleration-stats-performance-at-60mph.132373/
can't see what the multi-speed taycan will do.

Just keep in mind, you're comparing an eco car with a bit of a party trick, with the most ridiculous fuel guzzling monsters money can buy.

I'm sure the performance is more than enough for any real world overtaking scenario.

 

[Nasher]

Which can be massively more hassle then finding a nearby electric plug and often much further away then a mile. In most places more so when we are talking for local driveing you will be closer to an electric plug then patrol. There are massively more places where patrol is further away then the nearest electric socket. Plus we have had far more days with empty patrol stations then we have with zero electricity access.

If you are only using the electric car for local driving you are more likely to run into patrol problems then lack of electric problems. Which is another major benefit for electric cars along with the massive amount of time saved as you waste tons of time filling up patrol cars while electric cars save a massive amount of time when used for local trips only.

But first you have to actually get the car to a spot you can plug it in (couldn't be towed, needed a flatbed). Then find someone willing to let you leave it plugged in all night and leech off their electricity.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Which can be massively more hassle then finding a nearby electric plug and often much further away then a mile. In most places more so when we are talking for local driveing you will be closer to an electric plug then patrol. There are massively more places where patrol is further away then the nearest electric socket. Plus we have had far more days with empty patrol stations then we have with zero electricity access.

If you are only using the electric car for local driving you are more likely to run into patrol problems then lack of electric problems. Which is another major benefit for electric cars along with the massive amount of time saved as you waste tons of time filling up patrol cars while electric cars save a massive amount of time when used for local trips only.

The only times (cross fingers) I have nearly run out of petrol/diesel in over 30 years have been when I have cut it fine and pulled into a station to find a sign saying no diesel/ station closed etc.

The nearest may only be less than a mile away (its likely far further in reality as stations continue to close), but you also dont know which direction it is unless your local.

My other halves fuel card means it can often be 30-40 miles between stations and significantly more. I filled up in inverness (her car me driving), nearest station she could use was over 100 miles away.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

But first you have to actually get the car to a spot you can plug it in (couldn't be towed, needed a flatbed). Then find someone willing to let you leave it plugged in all night and leech off their electricity.

They need to fix this, because if you could tow one you could literally charge it by doing that (from the energy recovery).

Most petrol cars probably wouldn't have the torgue to get it moving though

I suspect you will see a change to recovery vehicles. There is nothing to stop them being able to provide a small charge at the roadside, but your probably going to be limited to tens of miles realistically.
Which will likely be more than enough in the future.

 

[Nasher]

AA/RAC etc carry some petrol, but charging an EV isn't practical considering how busy they are. For the breakdown company it's wasted time and they aren't getting anything for it.

 

[godinman]

AA/RAC etc carry some petrol, but charging an EV isn't practical considering how busy they are. For the breakdown company it's wasted time and they aren't getting anything for it.

How small could they make a lithium ev battery pack? Could be something they plug in, a quick charge with 20 mile range or so could surely be done in 30 mins or so?

 

[Pottsey]

But first you have to actually get the car to a spot you can plug it in (couldn't be towed, needed a flatbed). Then find someone willing to let you leave it plugged in all night and leech off their electricity.

It’s not like an extension cable in the boot costs much or takes up much space and often depending where you are its easier and faster plugging in then getting fuel from the patrol station back to the empty car. Not that I would ever get into that situation with an electric car, if its going happen it will be with a patrol car.

For someone who only does local daily trips a patrol car takes up massively more fuelling time and has a far higher risk of fuel problems.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

AA/RAC etc carry some petrol, but charging an EV isn't practical considering how busy they are. For the breakdown company it's wasted time and they aren't getting anything for it.

For once Nasher I actually agree with you, it isn't worth it. Just tow them to the nearest plug and leave them there is the most viable solution. Given there are now chargers pretty much everywhere it really isn't an issue. They have investigated using battery packs on the back of vans but they are just expensive and can't deliver much charge, you also need to get the asset in place. Towing/flat bead is just easier.

Now for the part where you are wrong...
You can tow most EV's without issue (FWD) on one of those little dolly trailer they carry in the back of the van regardless of if you can get the car in neutral or not. You can also tow a RWD/AWD Tesla in neural/'tow mode', you just need 12V power to get it in neutral and get the parking brake off so it works even is the main battery is completely dead. I don't know about the others premium EV's like Jag or Audi etc.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Just get them to tow you and charge the battery on regen someone did that in a model 3.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I think it will vary frankly, while the patrol vehicles use diesel still they can easily provide some electrical current, from the engine plus a relatively small battery built into the van.
Even when towing it takes them some time, they have to get out and setup the tow hitch, so if its a choice of charging 15 miles worth at the roadside or towing 5-10 miles then its probably quicker and safer in many cases to just charge there.
Flatbeds can take hours to turn up and cost a lot more.

They will normally spend up to an hour at the roadside I believe, so its hardly a stretch to give some juice.

Hell they may even create a better van, so one thats purely for EV running out of juice. The issues faced and fixable at the roadside for Evs vs ICE cars will be dramatically lower.
So imagine something like the tesla truck arriving with a socket to plug into. A real time map of nearest charging points (hopefully far smarter by then, maybe even allowing a pre booked slot, book and pay in advance) and its far more feasible that roadside mini charging will be a thing.
Or if it really becomes an issue then a port to allow a decent size lead acid or similar to be dropped in that would provide a bit of charge to do say 15 miles. AA drops the battery in, follows you to a charge point, takes out battery sticks it back in his van and drives off. EV driver watches netflix for an hour whilst he charges.

So many options on how this could work I really dont see it being a terrible problem in the future. I still think it will be over hyped, as the charging expands and it becomes the norm for people.
Hell people in hire cars are probably a good example of a worst case example, they frequently also do idiotic things like putting the wrong fuel in. Its why they pretty much always have a sticker on the cap saying which fuel to put in.

 

[Bug One]

A normal 3 pin or even a type 2, which is about all you'd get out a generator / alternator isn't really ideal for the roadside. Via 3 pin, mine charges about 10% an hour. Via type 2 is't about 30% faster. If the next viable charger is 30 miles away, that would mean sitting there for about 3 hours. Can't see the patrol van wanting to hang around that long doing nothing.

I doubt a generator big enough to output a fast charge is viable to be contained in a van, so I'd imagine the new EV specific vans keep an EV pack onboard which holds ~50kw that can output via CCS or CHAdeMO and gets recharged slowly / or via plug in. That would get you enough charge to reach a fixed charger in under half an hour.

Looking at this, it appears the way the AA have gone. https://www.theaa.ie/blog/aa-electric-car-emergency-charger/

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

A normal 3 pin or even a type 2, which is about all you'd get out a generator / alternator isn't really ideal for the roadside. Via 3 pin, mine charges about 10% an hour. Via type 2 is't about 30% faster. If the next viable charger is 30 miles away, that would mean sitting there for about 3 hours. Can't see the patrol van wanting to hang around that long doing nothing.

I doubt a generator big enough to output a fast charge is viable to be contained in a van, so I'd imagine the new EV specific vans keep an EV pack onboard which holds ~50kw that can output via CCS or CHAdeMO and gets recharged slowly / or via plug in. That would get you enough charge to reach a fixed charger in under half an hour.

Looking at this, it appears the way the AA have gone. https://www.theaa.ie/blog/aa-electric-car-emergency-charger/

Yeah I think 30 miles would with current tech be above the logical point to roadside charging. The sensible point of giving enough charge to move themselves to a proper charger is probably going to be around the 10 mile mark right now I would say.

But the scenario Nasher said about, arriving to find a broken charger. Means they were off road and not technically a problem, wouldnt take much for a charge van to turn up, give enough charge to get them to another charge point. The vans could in theory have enough cells to give a hell of a fast charge for relatively small amounts (if the nearly flat car can take it) pretty much like the AA version.

Hell you can even imagine the rich lot. "Plug my car in myself!?, rubbish!, I have this app and it hails the charge van, this lovely chap comes round and charges my car up for me"

 

[jpaul]

interesting
looks like the rac too -https://www.whatcar.com/news/how-car-breakdown-services-are-changing/n19952Both the AA and the RAC acknowledge that with more

electric vehicles on our roads, the likelihood of them running out of charge is increasing, so they’re working on ways to replenish their batteries. The AA says it attends around 3000 EV breakdowns a year, and this figure is rising rapidly.
The EV Boost charger works with Type 1 and 2 sockets, enabling it to charge 99% of electric vehicles, and typically provides 10 miles of range from a 30-minute charge. Power comes from a generator that’s permanently attached to the van’s engine.
The equipment will be rolled out in other areas as demand for it arises. At present, they’re providing a 3.5kW charge, but faster 7kW units are being developed.

are 3000, of these type of breakdowns, disproportionate versus petrol

 

[Bug One]

3.5kw. Would be quicker using a flatbed.

This is the kind of thing they need. https://www.designwerk.com/en/mobile-dc-charger-22-kw-mdc22/

 

[Jez]

3.5kw. Would be quicker using a flatbed.

This is the kind of thing they need. https://www.designwerk.com/en/mobile-dc-charger-22-kw-mdc22/

? How does this unit help a mobile patrol. Do you just have to hope that you happen to break down next to a convenient 3 phase 400V outlet?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

3.5kw. Would be quicker using a flatbed.

This is the kind of thing they need. https://www.designwerk.com/en/mobile-dc-charger-22-kw-mdc22/

Don't forget flatbeds are a luck of the draw type thing. I know plenty of people who have spent hours over the years, stood by a car waiting on a flat bed.
Your far better trying to persuade the AA/RAC man to tow you, but they often don't want to.

 

[Bug One]

? How does this unit help a mobile patrol. Do you just have to hope that you happen to break down next to a convenient 3 phase 400V outlet?

No, they'd need a mobile power source to back it up that can output 400v / 32A. A big bank of batteries which get trickle charged would probably be the lightest / most portable. Then that's the type of charger they'd need to interface with cars.

 

[Bug One]

double post.

 

[Jez]

It doesnt sound very feasible to carry a power source like that in every patrol van? The equipment would be seriously expensive and bulky?

 

[Bug One]

It doesnt sound very feasible to carry a power source like that in every patrol van? The equipment would be seriously expensive and bulky?

Depends if you're talking about adding something to existing patrol vehicles, or you're thinking about a next generation fleet - which could be hybrid's.