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Which dac for takstar pro 82

Discussion in 'Sound City' started by shad0wnox, Jan 25, 2019.

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  1. shad0wnox

    Associate

    Joined: Jan 25, 2019

    Posts: 7

    Hi, I wanted a dac to play rpg, fps all kinds of games, series, movies, music, a few days ago I heard a sound in some conversations of some games that gave me to understand that it lacked quality, I do not know much about this type of devices and was between the Sound Blasterx G6 and the K3.

    I'm really going to notice a quality improvement? I always used the motherboard card

    I would also like to know about the 5.1 and 7.1 in the G6 because my headphones are stereo as this technology works or if it is pure marketing.

    Also I have a ps4 and a switch so the g6 could use it on them.

    Thanks everyone
     
  2. EsaT

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    Joined: Jun 6, 2008

    Posts: 4,777

    Location: Finland

    For headphone gaming you don't want "dumb" single purpose digital to analog converter, but sound card (external or internal) with binaural sound simulation/HRTF.
    Unlike its predecessor SBX G6 has Dolby Digital decoding allowing complete functionality with consoles.
    And if you want music without processing, that physical SBX button can be used to toggle processing on/off without need to go into control software.

    Without sound card's features you're stuck in stereo sound.
    And usual stereo speaker mix from games doesn't even give proper left-right immersion when listened with headphones:
    We hear in 3D because shape of head causes direction dependant changes to signal received by both ears from sound source.
    And naturally with headphones nothing of that can happen.

    So instead of decent left-right immersion of speakers, you'll only get extremely artificial "sound inside left or right ear, or sound in center of head" immersion:
    https://youtu.be/Y6ROujJ8Ae8?t=50s
    Without slightest spatial cues brain simply doesn't know where else to position sounds.

    For comparison here's binaural sound simulation:
    https://youtu.be/Y6ROujJ8Ae8?t=6m20s
    While as closed design that Takstar Pro 82 is likely quite lot behind really good open headphones difference should be clear.
    First minute of this is excellent quick test for capability of headphones:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_20T8x_OI

    Of course also movies benefit from binaural sound for proper immersion with headphones.
     
  3. shad0wnox

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    Joined: Jan 25, 2019

    Posts: 7

    Hi again Esat and thx for your complete answer, but i have a problem, I do not understand many of the terms you used and I was not clear if the device would be useful or if it would be better a sound card or nothing of this by having a stereo headphones

    you could make me a recommendation or we could not improve the sound with the type of headphones that I have?

    and as for my headphones, they are not good for being mid-range?

    Real thanks and sorry being a newbie in this subject is very difficult for me so many terms that I have read and understand its use
     
  4. shad0wnox

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    Joined: Jan 25, 2019

    Posts: 7


    sorry for bothering you again esat you can answer me, I'm really interested in what you have to tell me, to know what to choose

    Thanks again
     
  5. Marsman

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    Joined: Oct 18, 2009

    Posts: 10,421

    SoundblasterX G6 is probably the best choice, especially if you want to use consoles as well. Not really sure what outputs the Switch has, so I don't know if the G6 can be used with that. G6 can certainly be used with Playstation and Xbox though.

    Headphones are stereo, but the effect of surround sound is created by sound cues which give the listener the impression the sound is coming from different locations; other than just left or right, as it is with plain stereo. Esat has provided some Youtube links which give a good idea of how it can sound.

    Not sure you'd notice a significant increase in sound quality over motherboard audio though; it's more likely to be subtle. If you decide to a get a SoundblasterX G6, you'd mainly be buying for the surround sound effect feature.
     
  6. EsaT

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    Joined: Jun 6, 2008

    Posts: 4,777

    Location: Finland

    Standard stereo headphones with one driver for left ear and another for right ear is all what's needed, everything else is marketing BS.
    Question is about signal containing necessary spatial cues needed by brain, which has been known for over century.

    And still we have barely any binaural recordings despite of it giving lot better sound with headphones:


    In case of games we can't use dummy head microphone, or small microphones put into ears of some person's head.
    That's where mathematical algorithms called Head Related Transfer Function are needed.
    Those simulate how sound waves coming from its source are modified by head shape before ears receive them.

    And that's where sound cards are light year ahead of those "audiophile" DACs, which can only show themselves to games as 2.0/stereo device.
    Causing usual game without proper own sound settings to output speaker mix, which sucks with headphones.
    Sound card again can pretend to be surround (5.1/7.1) playback device:
    Games essentially think you have surround speaker set and output sound with 360 degree directional/spatial data.
    Then HRTF algorithm takes that surround sound as input data and calculates two channel mix for headphones with needed directional cues.


    Creative has had top level algorithm for many years.
    And for full compatibility with Playstation and Xbox you don't find many USB sound cards, because of need for optical input and Dolby Digital 5.1 decoding.
    In PCs you can have 7.1 channel USB sound card, but not so in consoles.
    That's why Sound BlasterX G6 is major improvement to its predecessor G5 for multi-device use.

    After that all what's needed is good stereo headphones.
    For its price that Takstar is no doubt very competent for closed design, especially compared to gaming brand trash.
    And anyway closed design is major challenge for accuracy reproduction even to traditional audio makers.
    Of course trade off of open design is its inability to attenuate environment's noises, so open headphones work well only in quiet environment.


    Nintendo Switch again can output only stereo sound, because it doesn't have optical output and Dolby Digital encoding.
     
  7. shad0wnox

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    Joined: Jan 25, 2019

    Posts: 7

    Thank you very much to both of you, Esat now I understand everything better and if you tell me that a sound card is much better than a Dac, could you recommend me one? I say it because I wanted it especially for pc consoles was an extra and if it is not too much trouble you could recommend a pair of open headphones for a future, as I said would be especially for playing and movies

    thank you
     
  8. EsaT

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    Joined: Jun 6, 2008

    Posts: 4,777

    Location: Finland

    Even without compatibility with Playstation/Xbox aspect, Sound BlasterX G6 is very good.
    You could also forget sound card features, like line and mic in and binaural sound simulation/HRTF and it would be still good for its price
    It has very high end D/A-converter (what DAC means) and headphone out has enough muscle to drive most of the headphones you could find from shops.

    For comparison luxury priced Sennheiser GSX has low end basic phone/tablet level DAC and headphone amp...
    Literally budget level Audigy FX/Xonar DGX have decent amount better DACs.
    (Sennheiser basically scamming gamers :mad:)


    Apparently that Takstar has some kind bass port with control.
    But unless you're using the position giving least amount of bass, as closed design it's going to have very strong bass.
    (in closed design feel of bass is always strong in general, unless its missing completely)
    Beyerdynamic DT990 (Pro around £100) would be one of the open headphones with strong bass punch.
    It's good for balanced gaming with good fun bass immersion and still good details.

    Though of course that strong bass makes details like foot steps harder to distinguish from simultaneous low frequency sounds.
    For that "aural godmode/wall hacking" AKG K702 (~£100) is absolute top level headphone.
    Next step up from that and binaural sound would be game showing locations of sound sources using some kind on screen map.
     
  9. shad0wnox

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    Joined: Jan 25, 2019

    Posts: 7


    Perfect, then I'm going to buy it, thank you very much for your help and I'll leave my impressions here in case anyone would find them useful.

    I have one last doubt, in this video that you passed me, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_20T8x_OI

    when it puts sbx pro studio (100%) and then the same but (67%) that percentage means?
     
  10. EsaT

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 6, 2008

    Posts: 4,777

    Location: Finland

    That setting isn't exactly that well documented.
    Something like 67-80% tends to sound best.
    There's likely variation between headphones.

    Sound BlasterX G6 doesn't seem to have anyway arbitrary percentage control, but apparently three different settings.
    Possibly comparable ~33%, that default 67% and 100%.
     
  11. shad0wnox

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    Joined: Jan 25, 2019

    Posts: 7

    In your opinion the g6, by comparisons that I have read has the same sound quality as the Ae-5 or even better?
     
  12. shad0wnox

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    Joined: Jan 25, 2019

    Posts: 7

    Hi. I already bought the G6 and I have some doubts.

    Why do all the profiles have bass off?
    Before I had the volume between 35-50 now if I put it above 25 hurts, this is for the amp not?
    I do not know if I'm able to get the full capacity to g6 because it does not equalize
    Thanks and best regards I'll tell you about it
     
  13. Marsman

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    Joined: Oct 18, 2009

    Posts: 10,421

    I'm not certain why all profiles have the bass off; but my guess would that it could be because too much bass can have an effect on how well the positional sound cues work, or 7.1 if you like. In other words, judging where another player is within a game might be more difficult because the sounds are going to be softer and harder to hear if there is too much bass.

    Yes. That is because the amp has more power than the onboard audio, which I'm assuming is what you were using before.

    Also; you might have the gain set to high, which would certainly mean the volume even at lower setting would be very loud with easy to drive headphones. There is a switch for low or high gain on the side. You really want it set to low, because the Takstar Pro 82's are likely very easy to drive headphones. AKG K702 for example, would likely need high gain setting.

    I would have thought the G6 has an equaliser, but I'm not sure. Esat will likely know more about that.
     
  14. EsaT

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    Joined: Jun 6, 2008

    Posts: 4,777

    Location: Finland

    Equalizer is under "Sound" tab.
    But you're not supposed to have same volume setting with different devices.
    Volume setting is always related to max output voltage of device.


    AKGs have lowish impedance, so better to start with low voltage gain and switch to high gain only if necessary.
    Using unnecessary high gain is also risk for hearing, in case volume gets accidentally maxed when not listening anything and that goes unnoticed.