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Who will be the next Labour leader?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by BowdonUK, Dec 14, 2019.

  1. Uther

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 11,868

    Actually I'm not a fan of hers but I think she made perfect sense there! If Brexit is paradise then she'll admit she was wrong...
    Johnson never did face Marr in the end did he..
     
  2. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,993

    100% of her electorate voted to Leave????? Still struggling with our Representative Democracy idea in this country I see.
     
  3. Bazzards

    Hitman

    Joined: Jul 2, 2008

    Posts: 922

    Location: Near London

    Wrong thread
     
  4. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,447

    I agree with your posts. I think a lot of people are a bit delusional with how they see not only Labour but themself as well.

    Most of the posters Ive seen here saying they used to or at least would want to vote Labour if they had a 'credible leader' seem fairly right wing to me.

    Im not talking about social politics but it does to an extent fall into that catagory. The problem most seem to have is foreigners. Be it the EU or 'blacks' or muslims hell a lot seem to be very against women as well. Id also add the LGBT communtity, those that dont eat meat and the very worst people of all. Environmentalists.

    A Lot of the criticism of Labour seems to me to be almost a carbon copy of how they see brexit (the supporters). Most of the time it is either a lie or a misconception or worse a misdirection. Labour is about social policy and the Tories will never match that ground because they see the state as a tax collector and regulation interferer.

    I mean it really has come to something when the people stop blaming the government for all the short falls and think it is fine to blame foreigners. Cant get a doctors appointment blame foreigners, cant get a hospital check up blame foreigners. Class sizes too big blame foreigners, not enough NHS workers blame foreigners. Actually that one might be right. Damn foreigners not coming over here and not filling our NHS requirements.

    Not enough houses, not enough police, not enough teachers, not enough soldiers. Whatever. Those are not the fault of anyone but the government.

    I think the majority of this country policy wise is left if not centre. Politics wise I think a large proportion are just very right wing but they just fail to accept it and seem willing to potentially harm themself in the future just for the sake of stopping someone they feel is not worthy of getting help. It really is cutting your nose off to spite your face.

    When I see the reasons people dont want to vote Labour and instead pick the Tories I just see brexit style reasons like sovereignty, take back control, too many regulations. Its nonsense.

    People voted Tory because they are right wing. Be it policy wise or politics and that is the sad thing here. The working class right wingers are not going to be helped by the Tories. They will not start throwing non whites out and will only make their own position worse.

    Say what you like about Labour but under them the schools were better funded, the NHS was better, there were more police and there were better public/council services.

    I dont so much mind people being right wing. Say like Dolph. Its fairly plain he is not pretending he wants to be left wing or even cuddly. He just wants a better right wing goverenment and thats fine. pretending that the Tories need a strong opposition to stop them going crazy right is a bit of a misdirection though and looks to put the blame on Labour for the Tories being right wing nutters.

    See this is what Im talking about. Labour is not more concerned about the immigrant worker, unless you mean second generation which just makes them british Im afraid. And even then thats still not correct.
    Seriously either do some research or stop visiting sites that are designed to get your backs up against Labour, the EU and foreigners.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19300051
    The Tories do not represent the 'working class'. They despise them and look down on them from a much further height than Labour ever would.
     
  5. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,815

    MP's first job is to their conscience, not your personal desires. Otherwise this country would be a terrible ********.

    Basically you want to ban MP's speaking their mind and just want them to be useless drones following public opinion, regardless of morality, effectiveness or efficiency. Might as well just get rid of all pretense of stability and just go full direct democracy, so when the vote comes up to 'ban BowdonUK from breathing' (hyperbole, making a point), you better not moan about it if it doesn't go the way you want it to go.

    Don't ask for things you'd regret.

    Perhaps also, you might want to wonder why Birmingham Yardley voted for an open remainer if you think in such rigid definitions of what an MP is supposed to do.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  6. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,621

    Why do you assume its 100%? All it needs for the statement I made to be true would be a majority. It seems you are the one struggling.

    These situations have already happened. Do you think all immigrants welcome more immigrants?

    You're correct about the Tories, and this is why we get offshoots like the BNP, UKIP, Brexit Party, England First etc, because thats the working class rebelling against the Tories and showing Labour doesn't represent them. The last election showed that people would rather vote for the Tories than have Corbyn in number 10. That should tell you something.

    So an MP promises you they will hold a position on a particular subject. You vote for them because of that. They get re-elected, then vote the opposite way, and you think thats ok?

    I think you're only saying that stuff because the issue mentioned you agree with her. But what if Labour got in and Corbyn grew a pair and said "I don't think we'll bother with a referendum or reversing Brexit". You'd be ok with that?
     
  7. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,993

    As I said you are struggling with the idea of our Representative Democracy. MPs do not have to do what part of their electorate want. It is on their conscience how they vote in Parliament.
     
  8. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,447

    Sorry, what?
    No the working class supporting BNP, UKIP, et al are a rebelion against Labour not the Tories. Sadly they are being driven by right wing Tory supporters to make them think Labour dont support them.

    What the last election showed was that people want brexit so bad that they are prepared to shoot themself in the face for it and remainers didnt come out in the numbers they promised. Where was the Libdem surge for instance? People shouldnt have gone Tory to keep out Labour they should have gone Libdem if anything.

    After brexit the Tories have nothing going for them. Their only chance of not being rejected is for them to go completely against everything they stand for and have done since I can remember. The electorate dont want the Tories as such they just dont want 'foriegn stuffs'.

    People didnt not vote Labour because they didnt want free stuff they just didnt want others to get free stuff as well. Hence voting Tory.
     
  9. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,815

    I wouldn't, but then they'd be the government and if they can do so with a stable majority, then that is all that is required since parliament is sovereign, the final law of the land. They'd be risking a loss at the next GE presumably and that's typically where the mitigation comes in.

    Regardless she's an MP, she has to campaign on multiple issues, not just a single one, so if said single issue is big enough to vote her out, then she would have been, but she wasn't, so the people decided that they wanted her and didn't care about Brexit much at all. Additionally, until I see evidence that she's hard-promised to support leaving to her constituents and actively voted the opposite way in parliament, I just don't see the issue here.

    She is free to have her opinion, she is representing all members of her constituency, not just the ones that voted her in and the public is free to rid themselves of her if they so please. Your assertion that she didn't represent their opinions is somehow anathema to the operation of democracy in this country for centuries, might have some more weight if she was booted out.

    What about the argument of war, had there been a referendum in 1938 to go to war with Germany and it failed, would that have been more sensible in comparison to what happened? What about voting to boot Northern Ireland or not helping the Falklands? Should the public control such an aspect of state?
     
  10. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,621

    Go tell that to all the people who abandoned Labour.
     
  11. RedvGreen

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 2, 2009

    Posts: 3,915

    Location: Midlands

    When is the deadline for joining Labour to vote in the leadership race?
     
  12. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 3,813

    Not only is it OK but in some situations I'd expect it. An MPs first responsibility is to the country and if that means going against a position they ran on and against what their constituents want then that's what they should do, or are you suggesting that, for example, an MP should not vote to oppose taking the country to war if once they're elected they're presented with privy information that informed them the country they said we should go to war against, a country their constituents wanted to go to war with, was unbeknown to them and their constituents a nuclear capable country.

    Are you saying that if a situation changed an MP should not change their mind, that they should not use their better judgment, that they should be so pigheaded that they should never change their mind even if it results in the death of millions?
     
  13. FoxEye

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 17, 2006

    Posts: 23,346

    Location: Cornwall

    What makes you think that? People vote for the party, mostly.

    Last election, those who left their party and stood as independents were not re-elected.

    Most of us will never have spoken to our local MP.
     
  14. Uther

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 11,868

    Most people are swayed by the leaders I suspect. How many people didn't vote Labour just because of Corbyn...
     
  15. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,993

    People have been abandoning Labour for a while now. In Scotland it started during Blair's term. In the recent election it was a cumulation of events such as Corbyn sitting on the fence and nobody really knowing Labour's policy. As that video on this forum earlier said "if a political party does not have a clear policy do not expect people to vote for them". There were many other reasons including the inept leader. The one thing that is certain, is was not was individual MPs voted.
     
  16. Ayahuasca

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 20,045

    Location: County Durham

    This may well come across as sexist but Labour are doomed if any of those female candidates win.
     
  17. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,621

    Labour leadership: Result will be announced on 4 April
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51000133

    Why do they allow people who aren't full party members to vote in their election?
     
  18. squerble

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 13, 2009

    Posts: 4,238

    Location: UK

    How on earth does it take 4 months??
     
  19. Uther

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 11,868

    Didn't a load of people pay up to vote Corbyn for the lols last time? If they do that again Labour will probably end up with someone like Long Bailey...
     
  20. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 16,159

    They should get Count Binface in. Can't do any worse.