Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by BowdonUK, Dec 14, 2019.
Momentum needs plenty of time to lean on the candidates Corbyn doesn't approve of.
I have read all of that open-mouthed with my jaw on the floor. The sheer delusion judging people on how they vote is the reason Labour and the people who support them are in the toilet and destined to stay there unless they wake up.
I believe now that the best thing to do to keep everyone on the left happy is for Labour to split in two. The far left can then become the Nu Communist/Marxist party if they wish and leave the rest to be more centralist and able to win elections again.
The fact is that BowdonUK is correct that this country is centre-right in general, and anyone peddling real socialism is always going to have a difficult time getting elected. And the only time Labour is viable as a party is if they leave socialism and become more like LibDems, if they can't do that then they just should give up and let the LibDems become the new opposition. In the meantime, Labour needs major reorganisation and need to resign to the fact that they won't be able to do it in time for the next election.
The fact is that those who do labour (the natural Labour constituency) do not want some middle class, London based, woke, socialist member trying to look after them in the way they think is best for them.
^^ This is probably closer than the rubbish @robgmun posted. Both parties have moved from local candidates to corporate politics. Labour has always had MPs who understood their voters due to having been postmen or whatever in their early career. Now it seems to be Uni/work for an MP/MP candidate. They need to rediscover their roots.
You'd think they would realise its why they lost. But, the momentum lot have their heads in the sand. Probably because its their whole reason for existing.
No its to give the right wing enough time to get their stories together as to why that person shouldnt be leader.
So vote in a bunch of posh toffs that are doing exactly that instead.
Personaly I get why people didnt vote Labour. I just dont think you are being honest with yourself.
Plenty of the unwary to choose from so does it matter in the grand scheme of things? history shows and says no not really.
Thats for the voters to decide and last election they didnt agree. If the Libdems had gotten more votes and I mean a lot more, more than the 7m that Clegg in 2010 then they might have been heading in the right direction but they only got 3.5m.
The 2010 election looked more like a Libdem surge (even though it wasnt) and if they had been less subservient then I think they might well have grown and taken more Labour voters with them rather than the crash down to earth they had. They only got 2m less than Labour then. That should have been their starting block.
You ask a Labour remainer why they didnt vote Labour and they might say because Labour wanted brexit and if you ask a leaver why they didnt vote Labour they will say that Labour wanted to over turn brexit and then throw in some other stuff to make them look woke.
Why people in the north voted Tory is beyond me if its wasnt about brexit and/or far right tendencies.
They've voted Labour for the last few decades and it looks like it got them nowhere, they're just as poor up there as they've always been. Maybe they finally woke up to that. IF (and yes it's a big if) Boris love bombs them in the next 5 years with infrastructure projects (which in turn provides jobs up there) and make city centres look a little less like they've been through a nuclear winter. Then they'll never vote Labour again as they'll see living standards improve.
Labour probably need to work that out if they want to win an election at some point.
You are right. I blame Tony Blair.
Yes they need to stop offering to help people, communities and public services and should just be willing to tell more lies.
looks like rebbeca long baily is the official corbyn and momentum candidate going off this tripe.
gets in a swipe about the nasty media and gives corbyn 10/10 and he's super honest. buts she's not the continuity candidate..... suuuuuuuure
Lies work. Its that simple.
Lies only work for a time. Even to the bovine British reality eventually intrudes and then they get angry.
Can Brexiters get any angrier, surely they will explode?
You can't write off all criticism of Labour that way - even if it is valid for some people. You are only doing yourself a disservice by doing so.
I know a lot of pro-Labour/Corbyn want to make it about Brexit but the truth is a lot of the working class now (plumbers, etc.) have something to lose - back in 2017 (and before), etc. they still saw Labour as being somewhat softer left more like the ideal of "social democracies" in Europe, etc. but this time around Corbyn/Momentum showed more of their true hand and it had those people running for the hills as they started to realise who'd end up footing the bill for Labour's grand ideas when they missed their target. This is a big factor in why on earth people in the North voted Tory because true or not the Tories were promising something more like a continuation of what they have.
Fortunately you seem to be in a shrinking minority who can't see the truth of this or actually buy fully into that ideology.
There is a rump of Conservatives that could be described as posh toffs, but there are many ordinary people too (well as ordinary as anyone who puts themselves up for election). It is as generalised as describing all Labour as communist or Marxist.
So you are saying that all the next leader needs to do is not be Corbyn and not have the same policies except for the ones everyone in Labour and most of the people that used to vote Labour liked. Okay gotcha.
So no mention of free broadband and no privatising utility companies just yet but rail nationalisation is fine because everyone liked that idea. More police, more teachers, more schools, more hospitals because we need them. Better pay for public service workers, better public services? Are we ready for that yet?
Oh hold on who is going to pay for all these things we need?
I mean we have to start moving on from the result and look to whats going to happen fron now on otherwise this would should not be called who will be the next Labour leader.
None so blind as those that won't see.
Well lets add Boris and JRM for sure to that list of toffs, who are the real heros of this brexit scenario. Just as right wingers like to label Corbyn and McDonnel as communists and Marxist. Is that fair?
But yes many of the Tories arent toffs but most are far from normal. At least my sort of normal anyway. I dont know your circle.
My thoughts exactly.
Separate names with a comma.