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Who will be the next Labour leader?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by BowdonUK, Dec 14, 2019.

  1. ChroniC

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 9,109

    I don't know what RLB policies / skills are etc I'm not a labour supporter but I can read the general public like a book.
    Sadly of you want to get a message across that isn't popular you need to trick the public into believing in it with charisma and relatable people. RLB isn't that person. If Labour vote her in they will suffer another defeat, not from being wrong but by not realising that they need better marketing.
     
  2. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,392

    As far as I can see Labour still aren't asking the hard questions i.e. why did we lose the latest general election and why have we been losing support over the last decade. The inner circle of Labour appear to be trapped in a bubble of their own making and have little clue about the electorate. My own personal choice would be Kier Starmer or Emily Thornbury who I though aquitted herself very well on the Andrew Neil show last night.

    If momentum and the membership continue to push RLB then as others have commented that's Labour out of power for at least another decade. But hey what do we know we're only ordinary voters.
     
  3. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 17,554

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    I'm pretty sure that everyone but RLB is, but they're not going to talk about it until the leadership election is over and they don't have to worry about spooking the membership.
     
  4. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,392

    That’s very true Mr Jack.
     
  5. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 23,989

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Yikes, RLB is an absolute train wreck. She makes Diane Abbott look competent.
     
  6. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,889

    Thats not correct.

    The Labour party had started losing support after the 1997 election while Blair was still the leader. Millions per election. So nearly 20 years ago and only started to increase its support after the 2010 election and it only decreasing in the 2019 election.

    So really they have been gaining support in the last decade since 2010/11 not losing it. Apart from 2019 ofcourse.

    While it could be seen recently by some as Labour losing the working class vote that had actually been happening since 1997 when Blairs new Labour tried to tell the working classes that they need to up their game and get educated and become middle class and get middle class jobs and strive to get big houses and fancy cars.

    This whole working class aspiration project is what I think killed Labour. The working class dont want to be told the only way they will be doing better is by bettering themselves.

    Labour became the party of the do good middle classes and in its desire to keep those votes it ignored to a great extent the actual working class that were quite happy doing a menial job and living in their council house by not building mass council housing and slowly trying to make the workforce economy lead (services) instead of industry and public services.

    They want to be told its not their fault they are in the position they are in. They want to be reasured its the fault of someone else. Hence the support for brexit and austerity.

    Corbyn tried to tell them it was capitalism that held them in that position while the Tories told them it was foreigners and beneift claimants.
    Why what has she done now?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  7. nkata

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 7,440

    Location: Cheshire / Staffordshire

    So Labour policy should be against aspiration. Don't send your kids to Uni, the unions and the state will look after you in your time on earth?

    The facts are that many previous Labour voters were actually better educated than Jeremy Corbyn, and showed it.

    I just hope that you choose wisely this time, I am already tired of butt-hurt Labour lefties winging.
     
  8. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,889

    Typical right wing brexiter logic. No one should be against aspiration. The fault is pretending its lifes only goal to better your position. For some it just isnt. Aspiration was just a cover story just like brexit and just like austerity

    As I am of butt hurt right wing brexiters trying to blame the EU and pretending that leaving the EU will be the best thing since before joining which ignores the whole reason we wanted to join in the first place.
     
  9. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 23,989

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    It's not just what she's done (although rating Corbyn at 10/10 should have been a pretty big clue about her mental state), it's about who she is and what she represents.

    Labour should be kicking Momentum out of the party, not crowing one of its members as leader.
     
  10. Evangelion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 23,989

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    To her credit—even if it's the only credit I can give her—RLB is saying the exact opposite of this.

    (Source).
     
  11. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,889

    So she hasnt done anything else recently you just want to whine for the sake of it then?

    What she represents is fine. I mean I dont personaly like her for leader but she represents the good things of Corbyn with out all the bagage of terrorism support and claims of antisemitism and is willing to use nuclear weapons.

    Is it because you like your left wing parties to be a bit right wing so you can feel comfortable supporting them?
    What do you mean to her credit? What you quoted she said is basicaly what I said that then lead to that inane reply from nkata.

    Its not about handouts it about making sure that people at/near the bottom dont have to live ****** lives due to their inability to afford not too. While also making sure the country can work for those that aspire or who are already middle class. We cant be a country that punishes/neglects the poor for being poor. They do vital jobs and they should be looked after properly. If that means council housing and inwork benefits then so be it.

    Should people just have to live in crap enviroments because they are poor or just commit suicide because they have no aspiration? We have to accept responsabilty for the working poor. Someone somewhere is either getting rich or getting vital services from those working poor.
     
  12. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,392

    I’m sorry TE but your vision is like so much of the current Labour membership i.e. completely out of touch with the electorate at large. Labour need to stop pandering to their old working class roots (I say working class tongue in cheek as many have never held a job in a generation). Go after the aspirational voter and leave behind the traditional labour vote. Emily Thornberry was right Labour need to go back to their pledge card and stop trying to promise the electorate the universe who just didn’t buy into it.
     
  13. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,889

    You are missing the point. Aspiration should be a given in a decent country run by a decent government. It shouldnt need extra provision/attention. It should already be there.

    See the problem is you hear working class and you immediately demonise them by calling them benefit scroungers.

    I just cant get my head around the logic of ignoring the majority of UK voters and the very people that need a good government. Emily Thornberry was saying nothing of the sort.

    Leaving the working class to the likes of the Tories and other far right parties is a bit risky dont you think?

    Labour cant be the party of aspiration only. Its stupid and I suspect you are missing the point on purpose if you are saying the answer to Labours problems is to ignore or disregard the working class. Thats what Blair did and he lost support for it.

    The Tories pandered to the needs of the working class and they got in on those promises to help them.
     
  14. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,392

    If it’s a choice between Corbynism and his view of the working class or the Tories I think I would go with the Tories and I’ve never voted for them in 48 years. Whenever I hear Labour go on about food banks and the poor my heart sinks. We have three food banks near us and a more feckless lot I’ve never seen. I know quite a few families who’ve never held down a job in a generation yet appear to have a better life quality than many working families. Emily Thornberry did advocate going back to the pledge card. I’d suggest you watch the Andrew Neil Show. RLB will simply drag Labour further into the wilderness.
     
  15. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,889

    I just cant work out what you are saying most of the time. The working class are not the enemy.
     
  16. GAC

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 11, 2004

    Posts: 3,859

    i think the issue is that some "working class" have never worked and have no intention of working. not all but SOME.

    and i know first hand having worked for a homeless charity dealing with 16-25 year olds, you'd be surprised how many have this strange idea that they will get hand outs and leg up's for life doing whatever they want. honestly the class system can die a death for me as it drags any conversation back to the 1950's sketch with the two ronnies and john cleese.

    what should be concentrated on is peoples circumstances more rather than just claiming a class status and leaving it at that, as i know some people who will claim to be middle class have eye watering debt and are one months pay from being out on the street if they arnt careful.

    if labour would stop with the class struggle talk and move forward it would help them a great deal but all i keep seeing is throw backs to the 1970's and how evil the conservatives are. rather than coming up with a more grown up and evolved discussion about how people can be helped. party political point scoring and finger pointing gets old fast yet thats all that seems to still happen, more so with labour of late. hell our local labour council head (who was running for mp) put a big press release out on the councils facebook page talking about how a bus service had been saved from being closed, not one word about the people involved in saving it including two local conservative mp's. a bit of class congratulating the other side when they do something good may go a long way to showing the party is evolving but i doubt its ever going to happen in the next decade.
     
  17. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,232

    I don't tend to think of anyone as "the enemy". Do you?
     
  18. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 15,155

    If she wins then Boris has an easy election next time.

    They have put 3 women forward for the job (because women leader etc) and they are all ****. If they don't pick Starmer then Labour are done. He is the only one I can see as leader of a country and taken seriously.
     
  19. ltron

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 30, 2014

    Posts: 1,839

    Saying they are feckless scroungers I think which is quite wrong. There shouldn't be any need for even one food bank in this wealthy country and to say so is not going against aspiration. Yes, aspiration should be encouraged, but when the number of people who can aspire to a decent quality of life is shrinking year after year due to failures of the state and the lack of decent opportunities then something should be done about it.
     
  20. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,392

    The working class are no longer voting Labour but the non working class are. This needs to change if Labour aren’t to become an irrelevance.