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Who will be the next Labour leader?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by BowdonUK, Dec 14, 2019.

  1. McstylisT

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 8, 2008

    Posts: 2,304

    Location: In Lockdown England

    Maybe analytical because of the way they have been vigorously taught to do so. That does not make them more aware of anything actually important to a vast majority of people, that made them vote for the idea of brexit. Fundamentals mean different things to different people. Those young people might discuss them, but the don’t understand them. They are still children living off Mummy and Daddy. That does not give qualification to vote for things until they are bounded by those same fundermentals.
     
  2. McstylisT

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 8, 2008

    Posts: 2,304

    Location: In Lockdown England

    No. A 16 year old has no clue whatsoever. To even think they do rings alarm bells. But then you think like a labour ideologist. This is the warped way you think is positive. To me it’s Lunacy.

    I tend to agree on the 100 year old part though.
     
  3. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 67,950

    There are an increasing number of people doing that into their 30s even 40s these days - should they have their right to vote removed as well? :D
     
  4. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,920

    Almost literally everyone live's off of 'mommy and daddy', inheritance would nullify everyone's votes.

    Facetious reasoning.
     
  5. McstylisT

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 8, 2008

    Posts: 2,304

    Location: In Lockdown England

    I can’t say that though. It’s a legal right.

    But if that is true, we are being undermined by people who are not bound by the same decisions we make politically. How can that ever be a good thing. ?
    Experience of life, living alone and paying the bills and a mortgage help one grow up. It’s those adult experiences that help you have a reality of the choices you make. People making choices that effect voters, when these individuals don’t have any real life constraints or dependants etc. It does not mean the same thing or have the same importance. It’s a “think tank” type game where everything is ideological. This is why all here mainly are all Labour or Lib who voters. This is how ideology works. It’s flawed.
     
  6. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 18,533

    Location: Nordfriesland, Germany

    Cabinet shaping up. Ashworth has been good in Health, so I'm glad to see him stay. I don't really know anything about Dodds or Thomas-Symonds. Nandy should do okay in Foreign but I'd have liked to see Yvette Cooper get the slot. Gardiner, Lavery, and Trickett are out, and Abbott and McDonnell already resigned. Full line-up to follow.
     
  7. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,997

    We are talking of 16 yrs old not 6. They already have years of working with the internet behind them and my advice was always 'do not believe everything you hear, get two or three sources before you believe it' whereas some adults especially older ones will believe anything that the Express prints. You learn things through discussing them, which is why this forum is here, for example.
     
  8. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,628

    16 year olds don't have life experience.

    At school you just have to sit there accepting everything they say. Writing papers in exams you have to keep to a politically correct viewpoint. Especially in this day and age. If you venture off playing devils advocate you're more likely to be downmarked. Individual thinking as always been frowned on in schools. But as a young person you don't have the life experience to argue back about it.

    Contraversial view, but some might say we've got a lack of representative government because too many people are allowed to vote and most don't know what they are voting for. They get peer pressured in to voting either as a family tradition, or the constant media inciting people to vote. Do you really think they do that out of the goodness of their hearts?

    Back on topic though... I think he's picked a fairly good cabinet overall. I think we have to give him a chance. I think most people can respect someone who conducts himself well, even if we don't agree on some issues etc.
     
  9. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,920

    We literally have people of many ages, though skewing older looking at the readership, just regurgitating Express, Daily Mail and Guardian articles word for word, so your criticism is in my view minor and attributable to far more people than you're limiting your argument to.

    The fact is that this whole debate has been arbitrary since it was lowered to 18, there is no reason that those at 16 are different from those at 18, there is no qualified limitation that describes an ability to vote.

    Why not limit it to STEM university graduates? That isn't arbitrary and allows for your own argument to be followed as they've been through a process that strictly adheres to skepticism.

    Regardless, this debate is pretty pointless right now, i've made my piece and await the rest of the Shadow Cabinet.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  10. a1ex2001

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 14, 2005

    Posts: 12,601

    Location: Here and There...

    The voting age is arbitrary nonsense especially now everyone is expected to stay in education until 18 meaning that nobody turning voting age should have the ice experience some here seem to be demanding!

    The shadow cabinet line up looks decent so far I just pray we start to see an organised and effective opposition challenging the government on the important issues we have wasted too much time already in thus Parliament. He has no hope of winning the next election but hopefully he can put up a decent showing and move things in the right direction large majorities are not a good thing for fare balanced policies.
     
  11. amigafan2003

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 18, 2008

    Posts: 15,883

    Location: Fylde Coast, Lancashire

    I teach 16 year olds. You are so wrong.
     
  12. amigafan2003

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 18, 2008

    Posts: 15,883

    Location: Fylde Coast, Lancashire

    The have 16 years of life experience.

    Wrong.

    Wrong.

    Wrong

    Wrong.

    Wrong. If I put you in my debating class 90% of my students could out debate you with ease.
     
  13. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 20,688

    I see the bashing of Keir Starmer has already started, the latest one is that he was in charge of the CPS in 2009 when they didn't bring charges against Saville.

    Never mind that he wasn't involved in the case and later said that the CPS lawyer who was involved (along with two police forces) did a bad job.

    I guess they can't really bash him for anti-Semitism as he has a Jewish wife and is bringing up his child in the Jewish faith.
     
  14. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,997

    There is no subject you have to 'keep to a politically correct viewpoint' that is total BS, unless you think that saying the earth is not flat to be politically correct. You obviously know zero on teaching and education outside what you read in the trashy tabloids. If you 'play Devil's advocate' you will be judged on your line of thinking, can you substantiate your viewpoint. Individual thinking is not 'frowned upon', it is encouraged.

    The media have a lot to blame for people's voting either first han through reading or second hand through that person telling others. Social media is a growing problem for speading fake news.
     
  15. 200sols

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 4,054

    Location: Hampshire

    Starmer is somebody I feel I could vote for. I cant stand the current bunch of Tories, if he gets rid of all the Corbynites and moves towards the centre ground he could do well.
     
  16. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,628

    So what point are you making here? I haven't said they don't have 16 years of experience.

    If their debating skills are as good as yours I'll run rings around you AND your class ;)
     
  17. GAC

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 11, 2004

    Posts: 4,187

    saw some of that myself on twitter the other day, then people going after him for having a "torie" like rachel reeves in his shadow cabinet, rather than working with him seems the hard lefties are all set to go after him. i really hoped labour had turned a corner but if this keeps up im wondering how long it will be until some of the mp's start stamping their feet about things. seems they dont understand a left leaning labour party like what they just had wont win.
     
  18. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,628

    I think you're being a little silly here. Everyone has some knowledge because we've all been to school.

    Kids and young adults are coming out of the education system more intolerant these days than at any time previously. You seem to be saying that the teaching system as nothing to do with it? If its not the teaching system, then why are people so intolerant these days of other peoples opinions?

    I think when the government is having to force educational institutions to hear conservative views instead of no-platforming or shaming them, then there is a problem.

    Getting back on to the thread topic, I'm glad to see Richard Burgon, gone! The guy was an arrogant little toad who didn't even have the backbone to support what he was saying. Trying to get an answer to a yes and no question was exhausting.

    This guido link as some good video of examples of him in action.

    Bur-Gone, But Not Forgotten: His Career Highlights
    https://order-order.com/2020/04/06/bur-gone-not-forgotten-career-highlights/
     
  19. Mr C

    Hitman

    Joined: Sep 8, 2006

    Posts: 750

    I bet the kids in the 1800s who despised the idea of slavery were intolerant to their elders views.
    I bet the kids in the early 1900's were intolerant to the elders when they wanted equal women's rights.
    I bet the kids in the 60's up until today are intolerant because they wanted equal rights for homosexuals (this continues today towards the even more argued LGBT/gender topic).
    I bet the kids today are intolerant to conservative views because oppressive capitalism that has led to a huge inequalities between the old and young, whilst being asked to support greater state pensions and funding whilst watching their wages stagnate and a reduction in the average age to live.

    I KNOW the kids today are intolerant towards the elders regarding climate change because they understand the damage to their life will be substantial long after these people are dead.

    God forbid people go to school and learn that oppression from authority who only seek to abuse power and profit from the downtrodden should be opposed.

    I'm far from a leftie and a much bigger tory than labour (more lib dem than tory though) but it is clear that ever since education has existed people have been intolerant to outdated backwards and oppressive behaviour and that pure conservatives (think the US Republican party) want nothing to do with progressively improving the respective lives of their fellow man and are only interested in harking back to ages gone whereby there is no such thing as equal rights.
     
  20. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,997

    Opinions will be made and reinforced through family and peers. Your average teacher might only see a pupil for 1 to 4 mulitples of 45 mins a week with a subject to teach. They are not 'coming out of the education system' as if they had been absent from home for those years.

    What institutions are you talking about because it is certainly not schools. No platforming started when that Holocaust denier was going to speak at a Uni. Do you believe he should be allowed to?