1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Who will be the next Labour leader?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by BowdonUK, Dec 14, 2019.

  1. efish

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 11, 2014

    Posts: 1,636

    I don't agree with the argument you are attempting to make in regard to education. You're statement on Irving is derailed by you're politics here I would suggest.

    I do agree with this point.

    This is why Irving perspective failed. For a perspective to be historical it requires historians to reach a consensus.
    A consensus was reached in regard to Irving, what he was doing had no historical credibility whatsoever.

    Irving wanted a public platform on which he could strut his brand of nonsense and sell it on the basis that he was a credible historian.

    History denied him that platform as his work had no historical credibility.
     
  2. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,590

    The point I was making is that anyone should be able to stand and speak even if they have whacky ideas. Irving hasn't been stopped by no platforming him. It's given him credability just for being no platformed. Anyone with an axe to grind against the 'establishment' will be more open to listening and agreeing with what he says purely because he's seen as having forbidden views.

    I think we need to move away from the thought that if we allow someone to speak on a subject that we're endorsing their views. I think it was Aristotle who said: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
     
  3. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,590

    If someone wants to stand and speak on any subject who are we to stop him/her? As long as the person isn't directly threatening people then he's expressing a different view to someone else. The credability argument rests on how the argument is put across. I trust that the people once armed with the intellectual arguments can tell the difference between a senisible or whacky view point and will act accordingly.

    This demostrates what I was meaning when I said a politically correct weak view. The moment I'm seen to want to give a certain view a fair hearing some people assume I agree with Irving. This is why the mainstream view is weak because we haven't been taught all the views of the subject for fear of supporting them.

    For the record in case it needs stating, I believe in the official mainstream view of the holocaust. The biggest holocaust deniers and people hating Jewish people, and zionism, now sit firmly on the far left.
     
  4. Quartz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 10,434

    Location: Aberdeen

    But the pupil sees them for 45 minutes. Your school may not indoctrinate pupils, but I've seen it myself. So I can tell you it exists.

    Absolutely yes. Let the ignorant and hateful towrag speak. Let the people hear her hate and ignorance. Let the people demolish the deniers with facts. Or could it be that the people aren't actually as clever as you claim they are?
     
  5. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 24,719

    But hearing people's opinions doesn't really matter without their views being deconstructed, why would anyone go to this speech just to agitate it when they could do something less mind-numbing? The only people going would be people who agree, especially nowadays.

    We simply can't have sensible discussions anymore, not while the internet exists in it's current form, there's just no point, the effort required is too abrasive and you could potentially be risking physical violence to barely make a dent.
     
  6. BowdonUK

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 17, 2016

    Posts: 3,590

    I'm glad that Labour seem to be clearing house of the extreme elements.

    Labour expels Heanor mayor for saying Boris Johnson 'deserves' Covid-19
    https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/labour-expels-heanor-mayor-saying-4027262https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/labour-expels-heanor-mayor-saying-4027262

    I never understand the stupidity of people like this. However did she think it was a good thing to type online?
     
  7. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,774

    Location: Plymouth

    You've not spent much time hanging around the left of politics then. There is a signficant minority of utterly vile people that actively hate and wish ill on anyone who doesn't share their views.

    One of our local labour councillors posted a get well soon message for Boris on social media and was mobbed by members of his own party calling him a traitor etc.
     
  8. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,406

    Hmm confirmation bias at its best. There are arseholes on both sides of politics as has been shown in this thread many, many times.
     
  9. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,349

    In a school? Where? I might be able to learn how to get them to listen to me if this indoctrination thing is working...
     
  10. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,969

    People forget teaching is a two way process. It is hard enough trying to get over the subject sometimes, especially in computing when they are trying to find ways to get onto Facebook to talk to their mates, without including indoctrination. This canard about left wing indoctrination in schools has been going regularly since the 70's by tabloids. People with no idea about education regurgitate this nonsense.
     
  11. Quartz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 10,434

    Location: Aberdeen

    This was in Milton Keynes some years ago.
     
  12. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,969

    What form did this so-called indoctrination take?
     
  13. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,962

    Boris contracted the virus after he went into a ward of COVID-19 patients and shook their hands for a PR stunt. It was an act of truly staggering hubris and stupidity and he absolutely deserves to suffer the consequences - and I'd say that of anyone who did it, not just him.

    In fact, I'd say Boris needs to suffer the consequences for the good of everyone. He was trying to trivialise the threat, and that is the worst thing you could possibly do in a pandemic.
     
  14. Quartz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 10,434

    Location: Aberdeen

    Sorry, but it's too long ago to recall specific examples, but the phrase, 'As a good socialist I...' featured heavily.
     
  15. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,969

    He/she is stating up front his/her stance. Not really indoctrination.
     
  16. Quartz

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 10,434

    Location: Aberdeen

    Sorry, but it most certainly is. The teachers were highly respected so their words counted.
     
  17. McstylisT

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 8, 2008

    Posts: 2,286

    Location: In Lockdown England

    Totally agree.

    People don’t realise that as we do with work, those children and young adults spend a significant amount of time in those classrooms. With a constructed and carefully thought out planned “idea” of how we should think and act. How humans interact. What we don’t say and what we do say. When this is repeated over a number of years this eventually sinks in and the impression on those teachers passes on to the students.

    I feel this indoctrination is a silent emergency for our young in the coming years.

    I have even had conversations with my 9 year old where the class were calling Boris Johnson racist and the teacher was openly agreeing. That has a political imprint and it’s wrong.

    In case others were wondering, yes I went upto the school and educated the young teacher on how to behave in such influencing roles of power. :)
     
  18. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,969

    It is not. Indoctrination would be promoting one view without saying your own stance. 'Teachers highly respected'? Today? LMAO
     
  19. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 4,406

    Horrible, horrible deluded people.
     
  20. do_ron_ron

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 23, 2002

    Posts: 9,969

    'Significant amount of time'? One or two multiples of 45 mins. It may have passed you bye but teachers have a subject to teach. How is Chemistry made politically correct? Computer Science? Pupils spend far more time at home which is were their views are mainly formed, from their mother and father.

    Express 'Reds under the bed' 70's BS.

    Members of the class were saying, I thought you said it was indoctrination. That would come from the Teacher not the class. Is the teacher not allowed an opinion? Bojo was called a racist on TV and radio.

    I bet the teacher told the staff room 'Christ, had another nutter in here telling me how to teach'