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Why AMDs Zen2 at 4.5Ghz will win...

Discussion in 'CPUs' started by ramdrive, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. ramdrive

    Gangster

    Joined: Jun 14, 2013

    Posts: 345

    Location: UK

    Have a look:-

     
  2. Drollic

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 24, 2013

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    Location: East Midlands

    Sorry, what are they winning? The market share back they already lost years ago or? :D
     
  3. Yaayuh!

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 5, 2010

    Posts: 20,058

    No need for this to be outside the Zen2 thread.
     
  4. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 21,383

    Why do people care which corporation wins over the other?

    If they take the **** with Zen 2 pricing like Intel did with the 9900k, we all lose....
     
  5. Panos

    Perma Banned

    Joined: Nov 22, 2009

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    Location: Under the hot sun.

    4.5Ghz is the Engineering first sample... Not the final speed. On Ryzen 2 the first engineering samples were at 4.1Ghz...

    However what the video says, we need to compile out software for Zen to gain few dozen percent more perf :p
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  6. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 34,099

    This is worth its own thread, it explains how Dr Agner Fog details a lot more IPC potential locked up in the Zen architecture, it actually has much higher IPC than Intel's Skylake architecture but a weak front-end is holding Ryzen back, improvements to this front end over time can alleviate the bottleneck put AMD's IPC way ahead of Intel.

    Zen is actually running at 32 Bytes per Clock, this vs 16 Bytes per clock of Skylake.
    SkyLake 4 Micro ops per clock vs 6 on Zen.
    Decode: Skylake 1536 uOps vs Zen 2048 uOps
    and so on.........
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  7. AMDPower

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 24, 2004

    Posts: 2,612

    i don't get sound with the video, or very little, had a good chuckle with the Sub titles turned on lol

    but in all honestly i would be disappointed if amd only reached 4.5ghz on max boost clock. I really would expect more and I believe they will get more, maybe in the region of 4.7-5.00ghz all core overclock with decent temps. Well I hope.
     
  8. humbug

    Caporegime

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    Posts: 34,099

    How about 4.5Ghz with a 10% IPC gain?
     
  9. Jono8

    Caporegime

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    Posts: 31,069

    Location: Surrey

    If Zen 2 can do 4.5ghz or more(hopefully closer to 5.0ghz) on all cores with 12 cores and 24 threads as a mainstream part (ie successor to 2700x) then i'm in.

    If they can release something like that early next year it will totally pull Intel's trousers down.
     
  10. TonyTurbo78

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 26, 2013

    Posts: 9,697

    Location: West End, Southampton

    “Close to 5ghz” on 12 cores is wishful thinking, I’d take 4.5ghz to 4.8ghz in a heartbeat, that’s what I’m waiting for. Get that at under £399 and I’m swapping to AMD cpu. I really hope they can get that core clock up though, that’s really what I’m waiting on, I’ve gotten very used to a 5ghz all core 8700k.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  11. humbug

    Caporegime

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    There isn't a hell of a lot of difference between 4.5Ghz and 5Ghz, its 11%
     
  12. iakhtar

    Gangster

    Joined: Oct 29, 2009

    Posts: 145

    Even that would be the equivalent of a current Ryzen at 5ghz+ which is great, if we dare to imagine 15-20% ipc gain and more clockspeed then wow.
     
  13. beany_bot

    Mobster

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    Location: Glasgow Area

    Not wishing to derail the thread but... there is nothing wrong with the Intel pricing of 9900k. It's a reasonable MSRP of $488/$499 (£372) and it is selling for close to that at $529 (£400) in most of the world (Rainforest jacked up the price $30 from $500 to $529 because it is popular. That's fine and understandable business). I just picked one up for exactly that price just over £400.

    It's the UK sellers that are taking the urine on pricing. Where the rainforest has jacked up the price £20. UK retailers have jacked it up £200!!! Hell, never thought I would say it but don't blame Intel for retailer greed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  14. SiDeards73

    Soldato

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    No but you can blame Intel for their failings in supply and demand, as that is directly dictating the overpriced CPU's in the UK, @Gibbo himself stated that the reason they are priced high is due to extreme limited stock.

    If Intel got their act together and actually mass produced the product rather than a paper launch followed by drip feeding, the prices wouldnt be so artificially high. "yes but the US Customers are getting them" you will say... are they though? and that is pretty much just one big customer, with the biggest buying power in the world that is getting an extremely limited supply.

    So no, Not all of the US are getting them either.

    The real reason here is because of Intels arrogance and poor leadership, trying and failing a node change for so long without a backup plan has bitten them on the rear end and now consumers are paying the price for their arrogance, but like weak minded zombies people are still lobbing money at them regardless.

    Its a situation that is win win for Intel, they cant supply fast enough because of their lack of foresight, so their products are inflated in price and each and everyone is still selling.
     
  15. beany_bot

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    I don't understand why you are being so defensive for UK retailers. They are taking the micky mate. Stock or no stock they are the ones who have decided to jack up prices to £600!!! for TRAY chips! It's a slap in the face to their customers.

    And I'm not talking about one US retailer here. There are several retailers selling at that price ($530). I've had an email saying mine will ship tomorrow. So we shall see if that's true or not. But yeah, you can't blame short supply on these ridiculous UK prices. The retailers set the prices, regardless of supply. And they can just buy more from rainforest if they want and still sell them at £500 while still making double figure profits.

    Nah, you believe what you want to believe mate but we are being taken for a ride. With an MSRP of £380 would suspect Intel are selling the chips to retailers (like OCUK) for what... £360? £350? Possibly £340 or less for tray stock. (I am obviously guessing here but one thing we can be CERTAIN of is that it's costing them less than £380 per CPU. A markup of £600 is just vulgar.

    I like to consider myself quite a loyal customer but it has to work both ways. This is just ridiculous.
    If there is a seriously bad stock problem in the UK then sell them at or close to MSRP and if they sell out then people will just understand that they have sold out.

    But selling at £600+ just says "we don't actually give a **** about our customers and will just squeeze them as hard as we possibly can when times are tough because we can."

    It won't be forgotten.
    They can ram it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  16. KungFuSpaghetti

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Apr 7, 2017

    Posts: 1,368

    I was really looking forward to the i9 release as I had set my sights on one had they been around £350 to £400 max, as I recall the 8700k being around or under £300 at one point. Don't care what an 8700k costs this moment, as that doesn't reflect it's actual value to me being a now older generation of CPU. I'd expect a new flagship CPU to be more than the 8700k was when it was at its normalised price point. As such, I'm just going to wait it out, as my Xeon runs fine, my PC plays everything at high FPS @ 1080p and I've no affinity to AMD or Intel, so I'm open minded to either as I've had both historically. I'm thinking that if these new 3xxx series pop next year and are not too far behind Intel performance wise in gaming, then I'll get one of these and save myself a load of cash. While I could stump up £600 for a 9900k, the performance boost isn't worth the cost to me, my current rig never drops below 80fps on any of the games I play, so anything from these newer gens of CPU will still be an improvement on my ancient system.
     
  17. SiDeards73

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    As i said previously, i agree, the UK Retailers are gouging these chips, but in a weird way its to try and dissuade all but the most hardcore to purchase them, @Gibbo has been honest and upfront and said why exactly they have done so. Yes it sucks, but its not like no one see this coming? we always pay whatever it is in $ almost a straight conversion to £, in this instance there has been extra lobbed in top, this is mostly due to the chip shortage issue that Intel has, there is no secret Intel cannot supply 8th gen let alone 9th gen, so there is a premium on their products, currently there is a larger premium on their newest product, which normally always launch at a higher price if there is limited supply.

    Its the perfect storm, you have a brand new product, which is going to be in demand due to the nature of the product, thus there would normally be a price hike, then you have the extreme constraints on Intels supply which prior to the lauch increased the prices of Intels other products, so it just compounds the price of the chips here.

    Yes they are cheaper in the US, yes the UK Market is being fleeced, but as ive said before, it is nothing new, we are used to this, so i dont suddenly understand why now it is different and its the retailers faults? its always been their fault, its just now everyone wants Intels latest toys and wants to blame the retailers for over pricing it.

    if people boycotted these ridiculous prices sooner and voted with wallets we wouldnt be where we are now.... And it is just going to get worse, NVidia are showing the way with their laughable products pricing. Intel are following suit, just hope that AMD doesnt also hop on that bandwagon.
     
  18. beany_bot

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    It's scale. Frankly it's never been so bad. Yes we always whine when $499 = £499. and as you said we are used to it. But when $499 = £600. Something has gone far far wrong. How is this not the retailers fault? It is.
    Don't get me wrong, I am a capitalist. But I also know the value of not screwing over your loyal customers for a quick buck. Which is exactly what is happening here. It's a quick buck, taking advantage of customers.

    I have boycotted the price, I have bought elsewhere and I encourage all to do the same. Retailers don't seem to care. They will sell out of 9900k's at £600 and they know it. But what is the lasting damage? Will I ever buy a CPU from them again? Honestly at this rate probably not. Accounting spreadsheets don't have a memory but customers do.
     
  19. SiDeards73

    Soldato

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    If Intel drops a 10nm monster CPU and OCUK sell it at MSRP you will be back ;) you might even be back if AMD drop a Ryzen 7nm that beasts everything Intel has lol :)

    I agree though mate the current situation sucks, i just refuse to buy Intel right now, they should not be rewarded at all for their incompetence, i know many people will flock to them, but im sitting wait for Zen 2 and my drop in upgrade, sod Intel and Nvidia, they wont be getting my hard earned cash anytime soon, im not supporting their bad business practices until they make a radical change :)
     
  20. beany_bot

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    Back to who? OCUK? probably not. Intel sure, I've bought a 9900k elsewhere. I have no problem with Intel. Are you following what I am saying.

    £400 for 9900k. Fine by me.
    £600 OCUK price for tray stock 9900k. Rank abuse of loyal customers.