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Will Israel Attack Iran?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Castiel, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. Xordium

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    1) Iran does not have Russian military bases on its territory.
    2) You don't need an S-300 to bring down a stealth plane any SAM can do the job.
    3) Noone has suggested a full scale invasion.
    4) China didn't build a 5th generation fighter overnight. The project was started in the late 1990s with the first test flight in 2011 with the actual delivery of production units not until 2017.
    5) China has enough internal problems to deal with and the only movement it may make is for what it sees as its territory ie Taiwan. Which has of course consequences with the feeling towards Nationalist China from over 60 years ago. The mere acquisition of material ensures a diplomatic success. The US not being able to disengage from the Middle East propagates that.
    6) Care to show me exactly where Chinese state policy is about ruling the world?

    Seriously what is it with all you conspiracy theorists? One minute little old Israel is going to rule the world because someone misinterprets some vague ancient text that has no bearing on the modern age and the next China are going to parachute into Washington DC because its in Call of Duty or some Clancyesque novel.

    I would say that one thing that people have not considered is that a nuclear armed Iran could actually make the whole region safer. If you look at the rhetoric and action between equally at odds countries eg India and Pakistan then the infrastructure created eg instant access hotlines, high ranking officers on firstname basis, etc when the nations went nuclear then whilst it not necessarily forge a friendship it did foster an understanding and acceptance that has actually increased regional stability. One of the overlooked things is that nuclear weapons are only placed in the hands and control of very high ranking officers. Such positions are not gained easily and they also pretty much come with the prerequisite of a "normal family". That is enough to make anyone think twice. There seems to be the rather stupid assumption that if Iran made a bomb they would instantly use it which just smacks of prejudice and lack of understanding. For a start if Iran really did want Israel off the map why did they know do it ages ago - you don't need a nuke to do that. I suspect there are a number of here on these very forums that given the resources could build a pretty nasty weapon eg biological or chemical. And Iran has had that capacity for some time and yet they haven't used it ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  2. zoomee

    Soldato

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    Location: Hudds, UK

    Wouldn't be surprised Israel got away with attacking Iran tbh, seeing as our foreign secretary has just announced his plans to abstain from even helping the palestinians:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20524115

    A Pre-condition to specify that Palestinians can't have pre-conditions - The gutless hypocrisy!!

    But saying that its not a surprise when William Hague is a member of the 'Conservative Friends of Israel' and our PM was a honorary member of the JNF (Racist Jewish National Fund group) until last year. :rolleyes:
     
  3. Xordium

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    What do you mean get away with it?

    If you mean will the UN pass a resolution authorising the use of force to prevent similar acts of violence then of course that is never going to happen.

    IF Israel attacked Iran, the USA would say they hope there would be no more violence would occur and they will defend their assets in the region fully, the EU would say they hope their can be a swift end to any violence and ask for a diplomatic solution from all sides, Russia would condemn the attack in the strongest words and do absolutely nothing, China would condemn the attacks in the strongest words and do a few house arrests whilst the gaze is elsewhere, the Arabic world would go a bit loopy for a few months, and the UN would go naughty naughty.

    IF Iran attacked Israel, the USA would say they hope there would be no more violence would occur and they will defend their assets in the region fully, the EU would say they hope their can be a swift end to any violence and ask for a diplomatic solution from all sides, Russia would condemn the attack in the strongest words and do absolutely nothing, China would condemn the attacks in the strongest words and do a few house arrests whilst the gaze is elsewhere, the Arabic world would go a bit loopy for a few months, and the UN would go naughty naughty.
     
  4. muon

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    Israel in another land grab non shocker.

    I don' understand how people can say that preconditions asked by Palestinians are unreasonable. Asking that illegal settlements stop being build before peace talks can start isn't unreasonable when it is a blatant act of aggression.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20552391

    Of course Israel is free to do whatever it wants as the people in the world with any power will never be seen to have any harsh words. Israel knows it will only ever be portrayed as a victim in American politics and it seems, going by Hague's comments, in British polictics as well.

    Palestinians are powerless to do anything as Israel apprporiates more land and applies more increasing restrictions of movement as Palestinians are slowly walled in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  5. RoboCod

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    The harsh reality is that supporting the Palestinians presents no benefit whatsoever.
     
  6. The Running Man

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    No benefits for who?
     
  7. RoboCod

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    The US, the UK, the West.
     
  8. Ricochet J

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    Is that why the vast majority of the West, bar USA and Canada voted yes?

    /Just sayin'.
     
  9. Rroff

    Man of Honour

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    The only thing China's military really has going for it is numbers - much of their (fully) working advanced tech is however in very very limited numbers and their mass-produced advanced tech is mostly pretty shoddy. A lot of their heavy weight capabilities are obsolete and means their numerical advantage is massively reduced in effectiveness when they need many to one ratios to balance a fight. That said tho their technical accomplishment is advancing at a rapid pace.
     
  10. RDM

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    Depends on how you define "West". Quite a few Westeren Nations abstained.
     
  11. zoomee

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    Actually not many abstained - 138 for ,minority abstained and only 2-3 against: (Palestine is now the 149th state so do the math ;) )

    I notice the Israeli's however are just throwing it all in the face of the UN now though, with its announcement to re-start building settlements on occupied land instead of sitting down to negotiate. It's obvious they are the ones not interested in peace!

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/30/israel-build-jewish-settlement-un-palestine?intcmp=239

    But, tell you what - this surprises me:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/01/hillary-clinton-william-hague-israel-settlements

    Someone finally grown sum nuts? :eek:

    I'll take it Iran are now down the list of worries for Israel, lol
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  12. RDM

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    Define for me the term "West" in terms of nations and then see how many of the 41 abstentions make up that number.
     
  13. zoomee

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    Grabbed from elsewhere, work it out yourselves if your that bothered :p

     
  14. RoboCod

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    Voted YES to what exactly? - not sure what you're talking about when we were discussing Western intervention in the Gaza conflict. (by intervention I mean militarily).
     
  15. Devlish

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    This only surprises you because of your completely blinkered understanding of the issue. You cant see that nothing would make the US happier than for the Israelis and the Palestinians to figure out a way to live together peacefully, for about 7 billion reasons. Something not high on the agenda for countries like Iran and organisations like Hamas. Not everything is as black and white as you paint it. Oh and no, Iran will still be very much top of the foreign policy agenda for israel.

    Whilst were on the topic, as someone who supports the Israeli right to exist, I am well cheesed off at this announcement and think the foreign office is doing the right thing by calling in the ambassadors. This is just a blatant two fingers at the UN. Settlements are the massive thorn in the side of the peace negotiations, and completely unnecessary.
     
  16. mmj_uk

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    Governments all over Europe have called Israeli ambassadors to explain the E1 settlements although I doubt anything will come of it.

    Construction in the E1 area straight after Palestine getting international support just confirms that Israel never had any intention for a two state solution and were just biding time to continue their expansionist policies through never ending 'peace talks'. Israel are now doing everything they can to sabotage the possibility of a two state solution.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  17. The Running Man

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    And israel might even try to use it as bargaining chip concession, rather than lose out elsewhere, they can simply halt the unfinished work, rather than have to give something up that is already complete.


    Until the western leads grow some balls and tell israel to pack up all of the illegal settlements and after that pre-concession allow israel the opportunity to talk peace.

    Thing is, Israel dont want peace in the way that i might do, or the way that the UN proposess it.
     
  18. Xordium

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    Israel just wants everything on its terms only. Diplomatically it must be like dealing with a teenage girl. Stamping feet, you all hate me ... the only thing left for them is to plead that they never wanted to be a nation in the first place. Might not get that one, eh.
     
  19. Stretch

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    I don't think we needed any confirmation. The status quo is just too politically valuable to Israel, and ultimatly they have no desire to see a Palestinian state on their doorstop.

    Any solution will require forcing Israel to accept something they find unacceptable. Countries should just start recognising the state of Palestine.
     
  20. Devlish

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    well they do have a bunker mentality, but thats pretty understandable. You cant have 60 years of constantly being told youre going to be wiped out and invaded with the intention of doing just that, and it not have an influence on the national psyche.

    Couple of short term things that might change this situation. 1. Netanyahu gets re-elected and maybe withdraws this stupid construction project... unlikely. 2. Israel no longer becomes the issue in the region when the SAA start using their chemical stockpiles. Interestingly if this happens the US airbase in Turkey becomes important and with the Patriots America is edging closer to turkey... something Israel would not like.