would intel sell more cpus if they stopped changing sockets?

chipps101 · 16 Jan 2011 at 22:28

intel are just doing now what amd used to do, we have to remember that during skt 775's lifespan from pentium 4 to core2quad amd had skt A/754/939/am2/am2+ and am3.

the way i see it whoever has the fastest cpu's at that time can pretty much do what they wan't as they know people will always wan't to buy the fastest they can get.

Final8y · 16 Jan 2011 at 22:40

chipps101 said:
intel are just doing now what amd used to do, we have to remember that during skt 775's lifespan from pentium 4 to core2quad amd had skt A/754/939/am2/am2+ and am3.

Sorry but your ignoring that facts that you did not need the exact revision am2 /am2+ and am3 mobo for the am2/am2+ and am3 revision CPUs.

chipps101 · 16 Jan 2011 at 22:42

sorry Final8y but i can't understand what you are meaning with the post above, can you explain what you mean with exact revisions ?

Redmint · 16 Jan 2011 at 22:42

chipps101 said:
but core 2 and the i chips are completely different architectures, as i stated the only reason amd cpu's can be used on so many board revisions is because they are all basically the same architecture.

Kind of agree with Chipps here.

All the AMD fans have been saying "yeah it's awesome that we can use new AM3 chips in AM2+ motherboards with DDR2 RAM so it makes upgrading cheaper" and obviously there's good logic behind that, however the only reason this is possible is the similarity in architecture.

If AMD had changed their architecture sooner (Bulldozer...) they might have advanced more in the last 3-4 years and been in closer competition with Intel at the high end of the CPU market. If there had been an AM3 chip anywhere close to the i7 980X then AMD fans wouldn't have cared in the slightest that you couldn't use it on AM2+ boards...

Final8y · 16 Jan 2011 at 22:48

Redmint said:
Kind of agree with Chipps here.

1)All the AMD fans have been saying "yeah it's awesome that we can use new AM3 chips in AM2+ motherboards with DDR2 RAM so it makes upgrading cheaper" and obviously there's good logic behind that, however the only reason this is possible is the similarity in architecture.

2)If AMD had changed their architecture sooner (Bulldozer...) they might have advanced more in the last 3-4 years and been in closer competition with Intel at the high end of the CPU market. If there had been an AM3 chip anywhere close to the i7 980X then AMD fans wouldn't have cared in the slightest that you couldn't use it on AM2+ boards...

1) Yes that is why but that fact still remains that you can do so which is that point.

2) and how many Intel users here own i7 980X as compared to the i7 920
AMD does not need to compete with the i7 980X to get mindshare.

Final8y · 16 Jan 2011 at 22:50

chipps101 said:
sorry Final8y but i can't understand what you are meaning with the post above, can you explain what you mean with exact revisions ?

Its been edited & i have worked out far worse typo posts without much trouble.

Final8y · 16 Jan 2011 at 22:55

chipps101 said:
sorry Final8y but i can't understand what you are meaning with the post above, can you explain what you mean with exact revisions ?

You can use an AM3 CPU in an AM2+ socket mobo, that's just one example.

Now what socket reversion Intel CPU can be used in another revision socket.

chipps101 · 16 Jan 2011 at 22:57

i get what you are saying now, sorry wasn't having a go or anything.

but my point about the longevity of skt 775 is valid i feel. the list of chips for skt 775 was pentium 4/celeron/pentium d/celeron d/core solo/core duo/core2duo/pentium dual core/core2quad and i have probably missed a couple.

amd know that they can't compete right now with intel so are trying to make upgrades as cheap as possible to try and gain sales, thats the bottom line.

if amd could compete with intels current line up then they would be changing sockets and trying to wring every penny out of us also i feel.

at the start of skt 775 intel were playing catchup to athlon and then athlon 64 and the first x2's and amd were doing exactly what intel are doing now.

then intel knocked amd of their perch with core2duo (completely different architecture to netburst on the same socket) and amd suddenly lowered their prices and started making the chips compatible with other sockets while intel kept the core2 architecture until the i chips came out and they changed sockets to 1156 and 1366.

Final8y · 16 Jan 2011 at 23:05

chipps101 said:
i get what you are saying now, sorry wasn't having a go or anything.

1)but my point about the longevity of skt 775 is valid i feel. the list of chips for skt 775 was pentium 4/celeron/pentium d/celeron d/core solo/core duo/core2duo/pentium dual core/core2quad and i have probably missed a couple.

2)amd know that they can't compete right now with intel so are trying to make upgrades as cheap as possible to try and gain sales, thats the bottom line.

2=2)if amd could compete with intels current line up then they would be changing sockets and trying to wring every penny out of us also i feel.

1) That maybe your point but its not mine & has no reliance in reply to my main point of different skt CPU being compatible with different skt mobos because all yours are the same socket.

2) when AMD was a head at the time they changed socket less then now so i would not claim that in light of the history.

3) when was the last time that Intel made a CPU that was compatible with a different socket.

chipps101 · 16 Jan 2011 at 23:12

even rolling am2/am2+ and am3 together that is 4 amd sockets within the lifespan of 775 and 775 housed two completely different architectures, and you have to ask why if am2+ and am3 chips can work in the same socket why did they need to change the socket ? they could have just made am2+ boards that supported features included on am3 chips if one of those cpu's was installed ?

intel didn't make a cpu to that could fit into different sockets, they made their brand new totally redesigned architecture fit in their existing skt 775 when they brought out the core series chips. which is kind of what amd are doing now but their chips are only really updates and not whole new architectures.

nshire · 16 Jan 2011 at 23:15

Socket 775 lasted a long time and still very strong even now. Went from E4200 to Q6600 and 2 years later uped it to 3ghz. So I should get another year out of it. Was seriously tempted to get sandybridge but I feel it isn't worth it so may even wait for Ivy Bridge. May jump to 8 core instead when it comes out.

Final8y · 16 Jan 2011 at 23:16

chipps101 said:
even rolling am2/am2+ and am3 together that is 4 amd sockets within the lifespan of 775 and 775 housed two completely different architectures, and you have to ask why if am2+ and am3 chips can work in the same socket why did they need to change the socket ? they could have just made am2+ boards that supported am3 features if an am3 cpu was installed ?

There are changes in the AMD CPU that are only supported when the CPU is in its native socket & mobo chipset so they had to change the socket.

Change of architectures does not guarantee the need to change anything, its only likely.

PermaBanned · 16 Jan 2011 at 23:18

Also chipps, you're forgetting the fact that while some P4 chips and C2D's used the same socket, the actual motherboards were, for the most part, completely incompatible.

chipps101 · 16 Jan 2011 at 23:25

Superewza said:
Also chipps, you're forgetting the fact that while some P4 chips and C2D's used the same socket, the actual motherboards were, for the most part, completely incompatible.

i wouldn't say mostly there are lots of 965 and 975 boards that take core2duo, but of course some earlier boards don't.

Final8y · 16 Jan 2011 at 23:47

chipps101 said:
i get what you are saying now, sorry wasn't having a go or anything.

but my point about the longevity of skt 775 is valid i feel. the list of chips for skt 775 was pentium 4/celeron/pentium d/celeron d/core solo/core duo/core2duo/pentium dual core/core2quad and i have probably missed a couple.

Your listing a product range for a socket including the cut-down versions & quad version & Dual & many are not new arch to each other with cut down cache ect.... & no different from me listing every CPU that can be had on the AM2 through to AM3 again missing the point.

Athlon, phenom 1 & phenom 2 are the point. the single, duel, quad, six core are not the point & name change only versions like opteron & Sempron don't count either.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 17 Jan 2011 at 00:42

The thing is that many AMD 600 series and 700 series DDR2 motherboards released in 2007 can support even a Phenom II X6.

Final8y · 17 Jan 2011 at 01:21

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
The thing is that many AMD 600 series and 700 series DDR2 motherboards released in 2007 can support even a Phenom II X6.

Which is my point that a socket change revision CPU does not mean that you must always change the mobo with AMD.

Take AM2 out of the picture because that was nothing to do with support for new CPU & everything to do with jumping on the DDR2 train & fitting basically the exact CPUs with DDR2 mem controller.

So people could have gone 939 socket to an AM2+ socket & used every CPU socket revision after 939 on there first AM2+ mobo till this day which means the worry of a socket change has been irrelevant with AMD until BD comes out but a CPU socket revision change on Intel is likely to mean a mobo change every time.

Redmint · 17 Jan 2011 at 02:10

Final8y said:
1) Yes that is why but that fact still remains that you can do so which is that point.

2) and how many Intel users here own i7 980X as compared to the i7 920
AMD does not need to compete with the i7 980X to get mindshare.

True however the AM3 chips couldn't even compete with the i5/i7 750/870/930 chips (apart from maybe the Phenom X6 chips in heavily multithreaded applications). Also if they did compete with the 980X then it might have brought the prices down to something more reasonable than £800, which would have made it somewhat more popular...

edit: On the original topic, I do think they could have done a bit more with socket 1156/1366, there's no reason they couldn't have released quad core 32nm chips, however for some reason they only did dual or hex core 32nm chips...

Final8y · 17 Jan 2011 at 07:42

Redmint said:
1)True however the AM3 chips couldn't even compete with the i5/i7 750/870/930 chips (apart from maybe the Phenom X6 chips in heavily multithreaded applications). Also if they did compete with the 980X then it might have brought the prices down to something more reasonable than £800, which would have made it somewhat more popular...

1) Competition is not about making the extreme end of a competitors product more popular which is the least profitable because it will always be the least sold of a product line.

Yes the AM3 chips needed to compete with i5/i7 750/870/930 chips.

You don't need to be the fastest on the block you need to have the fastest at the most popular price point & that's all, if all other factors are equal which they never are so there is no guaranty that everyone will still buy it but most likely will.

edscdk · 17 Jan 2011 at 08:08

maybe but not by a noticable number, 98% of computers are purchased pre-built... and anyway weather you upgrade or buy a new PC intel still get a CPU sale... but if they force you to buy a new PC they may also sell chipsets or other bits as well..