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Would you vote for a PM like Angela Merkel in the UK?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by ver01@, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. One More Solo

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2004

    Posts: 15,457

    Location: Manchester

    Indeed, I thought this subforum was supposed to be about debates based in fact.
     
  2. Sasahara

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 12, 2009

    Posts: 3,727

    Germany would need another 15m people to achieve the same population density as the UK so it's bit misleading to compare the two.

    Would Germany be so happy to have that level of population? (96m)

    So we would have no idea what Merkel (or Merkel stimulant) would do if she was in charge of the UK rather than Germany.
     
  3. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Jun 30, 2007

    Posts: 66,559

    Location: Wales



    errr didnt she prove them right by doing that. the results being a huge crime wave, civil disobedience, and more damage to intercultural relations than Nigel farage has ever done
     
  4. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,125

    Nope,because there was no crime wave. In fact official statistics showed that the refugees committed crimes at a lower rate than the Germans. No damage to intercultural relations,merely the racists and xenophobes shouted louder, they were always there same as the UK. That is made especially clear in the election where stepdaughter highest refugees had the lowest voting for AfD, and vice versa.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  5. Hiijinx

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 11, 2009

    Posts: 1,035

    Having been brought up in Germany with dual British/German nationality and regular family holidays there to visit family I have often compared the two countries, with Germany ending up the "better" one in majority of situations.

    The whole way of life is different to ours, the core values people hold, the work/life stress balance, the welfare mentality especially (where almost all the pensioners I have seen are living the good life, driving new Mercedes and eating out at restaurants on a daily basis between their cruise holidays - something which cannot be said for our older generation).

    And the health care system, my god - talk about efficient! I had a spell of insomnia whilst on holiday one summer which had severely deprived my sleep to the point i had constant vertigo and unable to walk/eat (pre existing condition). i was carried into the local clinic in my hometown village of a few thousand population, was examined, given a full ECG and put on a vitamin drip on the spot. I walked out on my own feet.

    The same situation here in the UK I was given some anti dizziness pills which actually gave me dizziness and a 3 month referral wait to a neurologist.

    And perhaps my biggest complaint (whilst the least important) is the difference between our bakeries! Once you have seen the alternative, the grass really is greener on the other side!

    Mock her immigration stance and hair cut all you like, the vast population hold her so dear they call her "Mummy", we are the laughing stock with our U-turn leader.

    So yes, if we had been given a Merkel-like candidate, I would have voted for them without hesitation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  6. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 4,460

    She's Iosef Vissarionovich himself if you're of the political persuasion that uses "globalist" as a pejorative.
     
  7. Skunkworks

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 3, 2005

    Posts: 6,349

    A few years ago maybe. Now it's just an echo chamber for half dozen obnoxious wiki-intellectuals.
     
  8. platypus

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2003

    Posts: 38,971

    Location: Rhône-Alpes+Cambridge

    She's made coalition politics work successfully. I'd definitely vote fo rher.
     
  9. DrToffnar

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 25, 2013

    Posts: 2,992

    Right now? Absolutely. With Brexit being the absolute farce that it is, we need ACTUAL 'strong and stable' leadership, not this farcical twaddle we're currently having to deal with. During peace time however, probably not. Some of her politics are just a touch off for me.

    It's all relative though. given the right time and the wrong opposition, she'd likely get my vote more often then not.
     
  10. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Jun 30, 2007

    Posts: 66,559

    Location: Wales

    they had 1000 reports on new years alone how is that not a crime wave. also DP even if they commit crime at a lower rate than the natives that would still be a crime wave due to the large number of new crimes on top of the areas normal amount.


    it's all well and good saying "ah but only 1 in 10 refugees commit a crime unlike 1 in 5 germans!" but if 1000 refugees move to an tea to the locals thats just 100 new crimes.

    also thid one is more of a "technicality" rather than a legitimate argument and included just to show that "official statistics" must be tweaked but the crime rate among the refugees is 100% as they all illegally passed through countries to get there. so you're saying the official German statistics put Germany at a greater than 100% crime rate for its citizens?

    no damage to inter cultural relations? are you kidding me people started burning down houses of asylum seekers and foreigners which simulated in a massive shift to the far right in the German elections. that seems damaged

    not to mention the massive damage done throughout Europe to relations as other countries had to deal with her flip flopping "migrants welcome, oh wait no your not" policy which resulted in eu nations re establishing border controls or holding referendums on the issue.

    I'm going to guess that autocorrect screwed you over there some how?


    to say she did no damage to relations is laughable.

    if Merkel hadn't handled the migrant crisis so badly Europe would be a lot more united
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  11. mid_gen

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 20, 2004

    Posts: 8,438

    lol crimewave. It's sad how desperate some Brits are to paint Germany as a failure. How about pointing some of that critical/hyperbolic focus onto the state of your own country.
     
  12. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Jun 30, 2007

    Posts: 66,559

    Location: Wales


    ok, ho do you think merkels handing of the refugee situation affected the brexit referendum?

    because it seemed to be a major factor in the leave vote gaining ground.


    [​IMG]


    ^it provided that idiot with a great poster campaign....
     
  13. mid_gen

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 20, 2004

    Posts: 8,438

    The EU was not prepared for the refugee crisis. Germany dealt with the bulk of it, which as the most affluent member of the bloc is a pretty reasonable stance to take no?

    Merkel provided that idiot with a racist campaign poster? Who provided him with the referendum in the first place?
     
  14. Lord-Jaffa

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 29, 2004

    Posts: 5,630

    Location: UK

    Why don't you debate what he has posted then and give an opinion/facts as to why his statements are incorrect.
     
  15. lunarwolf

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 27, 2006

    Posts: 3,092

    Location: Dark Forest

    Yes i would vote for Merkel, even Macron, everyday of the week and twice on sunday

    A reasonable and thoughtful leader vs bloviating buffoons like Nigel/Boris or walking dead like Teresa/Jeremy or dinosaurs like Rees-Mogg. Seriously need some new blood at the head of UK politics.
     
  16. mid_gen

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 20, 2004

    Posts: 8,438

    Those claiming Merkel is to blame for the AfD need to get a bit of perspective. The vote share for the AfD is in the same sort of voteshare as UKIP managed, same demographic.

    They only directly elected 3 MPs. So, about the same as UKIP managed (bugger all). But because Germany uses PR, they get an equivalent number of seats to their voteshare (about 90).

    Germany hasn't fallen to the Nazi AfD any more than the UK has fallen to the Nazi UKIP. Difference being Germany isn't stupid enough to run referendums where that 10% can swing things.
     
  17. TallPaul1878

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 21, 2012

    Posts: 2,333

    Won't happen because the general public won't do anything about it.
     
  18. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,125

    A crime wave is a sustain significant increase in crime, not isolated incidents. TO examine whether there is an actual crime wave would require looking at statistical changes in crime rates. Secondly, no a crime rate is normalized by population size, so although the total number of crimes may have increased the population increased at a larger rate so the crime rate actually lowered. A Resident in Germany was no more liekly to be a victim of crime after the refugee crisis, this is especially he case since a lot of the crime committed by refugees are against other refugees. It is just a fact of life that there is also an underlying crime rate within a population, the absolute numbers will change with population size, but that is relatively irrelevant.


    But the probability that a resident is a victim of crime has actually reduced.

    Complete strawman argument. The refugees did not illegally pass through other countries.

    The far right was always there. A vast majority of Germans experienced a very positive experience with the refugees, which is why in those areas with the greatest number of refugees had the lowest voting for AfD.

    She damaged relation to the far right media circle jerks. The bigger issue is that other Eu countries simply didn't take their fair and moral share of the refugees which compounded the issue.

    If think you will find Europe i still very much united, it was only the UK that decied to cut its own leg off for a laugh.

    the ironic thing is any future refugee crisis is most liekly to see the UK have to take on many more refugees. It the EU that has given other EU countries the right to relocate refugees to other countries. Outwith the Eu, the UK will have a much harder time
     
  19. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,444

    I'd vote for her at most twice, beyond that and you get into the dangerous territory of mistakes that have nigh permanent consequences if said person continues to stay.
     
  20. wildman

    Soldato

    Joined: Nov 7, 2002

    Posts: 5,317

    Location: pantyhose factory

    a wrapped up insult that usually comes from Nazi's, racists and bigots as littered throughout these types of threads that go unchecked by the mods.