yep, it's that thread- amd back on form?

[adolf hamster]

yep, that thread.....

short version is, ram's dying and given it's a 6 year old bulldozer rig it's probably time for an upgrade.

so, thinking of upgrading, thing is i haven't really been paying attention, so have amd clawed their way back to success or am i right to be wary of getting another 8 core amd chip?

my benchmark would be a 6800k broadwell e, so i guess the equivalent would be the 1700x or one of intel's other lineups? will be paired to whatever upper mid range asus motherboard is available (maximus hero/sabertooth) plus 32gb of ram and maybe an m.2ssd

secondary question- currently running a k2 for cooling, will this fit the new intel/amd mobo's or will i be needing to replace that too?

 

[adolf hamster]

Those sound a bit more than the usual "teething problems", or at least as far as i'd call it.

Is the end result worth it over a 7800x offering? Because if the difference is just a few frames on a benchmark i'd be tempted to save the hassle and go intel given basically anything is going to be a massive jump from bulldozer.

 

[adolf hamster]

Its principally a gaming rig but also serves time doing the odd bit of rendering/fea/cad work, yes it might get locked up running full bore for several days at a time but not really a specific requirement to have a ton of cores.

In terms of ram i'll be wanting to go 32gb, not fussed on speed so much as budget for the ram.

It likely wont be getting overclocked for a while, and even then it'll just be a light affair as stability is important.

 

[adolf hamster]

So you need a CPU + motherboard + RAM? A new GPU aswell?

What's your budget?

Will be sticking with current gpu, it's massively cpu bottlenecked atm and i can live with it for a while yet.

Looking at cpu+mobo(i'm an asus fanboi, so itll be whatever board is a few pegs down from their top of the line)+ram+probably an m.2ssd

Budget wise i havent really specified a limit but ideally wouldnt want to be going much further north of 1k

 

[adolf hamster]

well, this has turned into the graphics card forum back when i last visited.

for reference i'm gaming at 1440p (the monitor will be staying for a good long time yet) on a 290x (that may well be getting upgraded in future but for now i can't afford to change it and the cpu setup at the same time and it's suffering from not being fed by the bulldozer chip rather than not being gutsy enough)

and yes i'll definately need ram, ram starting to die on me is what's started this whole thread

so am i right in thinking so far:

ryzen is good but i'll need to be spending more on the ram/mobo than i'd originally intended to get the best out of it?

skylake x isn't inspiring but in terms of competitiveness not that far off? or the 8700k has at least 1 backer?

 

[adolf hamster]

Ryzen is an excellent platform and performs really well, at a great price point.

I think a few things should be cleared up, all DDR4 RAM is currently expensive, even slow 2133/2400MHz kits, the sweet spot for getting the most of Ryzen is 2933MHz-3200MHz running low timings, so like any enthusiast RAM you'll pay more, to illustrate the actual price difference if you take 16GB (2x8GB) as an example £149.99 wil get you some 2133/2400MHz, £158.99 will get you 3000MHz, and £169.99 will get you 3200MHz, if you want to cover all your bases then the 8Pack kits are £199.99, but you get the added benefit of it probably being able to do much tighter timings, since it's rated at C14, and the cheaper kits are rated at C16 or above. So if you think £30 is worth 1-2% performance, then go for it.

Secondly, no you don't need an expensive motherboard at all, you can happily pick up a £100 B350 board, and get 95-97% of the performance of any CPU overclocked, that you'd get on a £230 board, just saving yourself £130. The best case scenario, unless you are mega lucky is 4.1GHz on a high end board, and probably 4.0GHz on the cheaper ones. It depends on what features you desire, and if having RGB, etc is important to you, personally I think the B350 boards offer staggering value for money, and due to the limited nature of overclocking with Ryzen, I don't think the boards matter nearly as much as they do on a highend platform like X299/X399.

The value cannot be ignored, and RAM will be required even if you chose an Intel platform, so that huge £30 extra people are banging on about isn't a deal breaker when you look at the total cost of the system, is it?

it is a good point, realistically i'd be wanting 32gb of ram, and if it's only going to be 1-2% boost for ~£60 (guessing it's basically double price for double ram from what you're saying) then i'd probably opt for going cheaper, remember this is going from 16gb of 1600mhz ddr3 (well, 8gb half of the time these days, one of the sticks is starting to randomly disconnect)

whilst i agree i don't need an expensive mobo, i will be sticking to the asus upper mid range boards, something like sabertooth/maximus hero level, i just feel it's hedging my bets against issues and i'm prepared that it'll have it's premium attatched.

my biggest issue with ryzen is bulldozer, i'm sure nobody can blame me having lived with that for 6 years when i'm wary of going back to another amd 8 core, and tbh unless ryzen really had a massive price/performance boost over the equivalent intel platform i'd still be inclined to go intel just on that alone.

 

[adolf hamster]

The other plus is when their 7nm zen2 chips come out in late 2018-2019, you’ll be able to drop on in if you fancy an upgrade rather than having to buy a new motherboard as well.

i can't see myself having the money to do that, or at least the next big purchase is almost certainly going to be graphics rather than cpu

 

[adolf hamster]

You have the option if you choose too. Depending on the increase in performance it may be worth doing.

true, i'm just looking forward and money's not going to be all that free for the next few years so i'm not holding much hope of being able to spend more on the pc for a good long while.

only reason i'm prepared to now is a combo of it having put in such long service and the fact i need it to be functioning, performance aside up until recently it has at least been very reliable and stable.

 

[adolf hamster]

Can I ask why you'd be going to 32GB, if you have 16GB now (or 8GB as you say) is there some applications you run that require more than 16GB. I ask since RAM is obviously very expensive presently, and you may find that waiting if you don't 'have to have' 32GB may save you a good amount of cash. With regards to the question about cost, then the sensible option is to grab something that offers be performance to £ spent, so IMO that is going to be anything that does 2933-3200MHz with decent timings. I should try running my test rig at 2933 C12/C14, and 3200 C14 to see what the difference is in real terms, but as long as you are hitting 2933MHZ you'll be getting a good balance of performance to effort required and the cost.

wanting to go to 32gb because i have been hitting the 16gb ceiling recently (well, when there's a 16gb cieling to hit), for pretty much the same reason i went with 16gb last time when 8gb was the standard. i do get your point about the cost of ram atm it is quite pricey.

I am sorry but I don't see that as a valid argument at all, it's like saying "Gee, no way am I getting a Core2 Duo after living with a Pentium D" it's just ignoring a great option due to choosing poorly in the past. Performance per £ spent, ultimately puts Ryzen ahead when an over all workload comes in to it, especially if you are looking at the R7 1700, and a reasonably priced motherboard.

it's just the nature of consumerism, hence the point of this thread being to try and convince me otherwise, thing is, i've not yet seen the intel crowd pitching in with "you need to check the bios when you get it", which is kind of putting me off (never like flashing stuff)

Hedging your bets against what exactly? I've used the ASRock Taichi X370 board, which is on par, if not better than the top of the range Asus CH6, and it offers little more than the low end B350 boards did, except like I already said, better tweaking otpions to get the last 5% performance from the platform as a whole. Don't forget the actual chipset does very little with the AM4 platform, so unless you plan on going SLI then when you buy a high end board you are paying for better power phases, for more stability with overclocking, sadly the Ryzen CPU's are limited by the silicone, not the motherboards stability in the majority of cases.

the second bold answers the first, like i say it might not be the most sound economics but it's the option i'm comfortable with and i'm prepared to accept that it'll cost a tad more.

 

[adolf hamster]

Fair enough, I use 32GB on my day-to-day system. Is your main target games, or do you do other things too?

games, cad, fea, rendering and general wanton multitasking on occasion

Well if you go Z370, which is the new Intel platform then I'd find it weird if there were no BIOS updates that while not required, certainly help for stability purposes a lot of the time, adding updated CPU microcode, and better RAM and peripheral compatibility. Flashing anything these days is pretty trivial what with dual BIOS, and flash back recovery etc. the risk is almost zero compared to the good old days. Lucky for me I have an SPI programmer so even if it does go wrong I can still flash the chips.

Oh and that's another thing, I don't subscribe to a crowd, hence why I don't get hung up on choosing something due to a brand, I will buy what offers the best performance for the job required, at the most sensible price point, especially when it comes to tools, which is how I see computers, even if I enjoy the hardware, it's still a tool.

true, tis a lot safer, but still scary

If you are happy that is what counts, and over six years you'll certainly get your monies worth. Your best choices at the high end are those I've mentioned, check the prices though since the Asus boards seem to have some sort massive price discrepancies in certainly places.

indeed, it might seem weird dropping ~1k whilst saying i can't afford to change the cpu next year but it's a combo of personal circumstance changes in the near future and of course knowing the gpu is the next on the list to do.

 

[adolf hamster]

hmm, i suppose it's a possibility, the only heavy cpu stuff i do outside gaming is generally well threaded.

might have a gander see what it'd look like with an r5 1600

 

[adolf hamster]

ok, so priced up (with a slightly larger ssd which is always nice) using the same ram/ssd for the 2 baskets the 8700k comes to £80 more than the R5 1600

ryzen's plus points are more threads, upgradability (potentially), slight edge on tdp but potentially some issues with bios that'll need attention

intel's plus points are slight boost for certain games, and not being another amd chip, negative point is for the same price i could change the r5 1600 for an r7 1700 and get an extra 2 cores

must admit, i am leaning towards ryzen at this point

 

[adolf hamster]

Which RAM are you going for?

Some of the corsair 3000mhz stuff, cant remember which one but 32gb is 329, would have course be open to better value suggestions as long as its 32gb of the stuff

CH6 board has AM3 and AM4 holes, so your K2(if you still got am3 fittings) will fit. There is also a compatible fittings you can get for few pounds.
I used a K2 on my CH6 with AM3 holes+fittings. Then got a Noctua D15SE and when I heard about the compatible fittings for K2 I got them as well because I think it is very good and looks rather nice(dare I say more than the D15).

Thanks dude, thats great to know, its on am3 mount atm, not getting the ch6 but if its possible i can't see why other boards wouldnt have the old mounts as well, if not then i can use the stock cooler for a few days while i get something else sorted.

The k2's served well so far and i cant see how it could be lacking on a lower tdp chip

 

[adolf hamster]

I can find 2x16GB of 3200mhz Corsair DDR4 LED for £306.

Link? Theres too many damn sets of ram on the shop and its a bugger to filter by capacity/price and compare easily.

 

[adolf hamster]

Not on OCuk, I can't link to competitors on the forums, sorry.

Ahh, fair enough, does ocuk stock it just for the sake of interest?

 

[adolf hamster]

Something isn't right there then since the CPU alone for the Intel is double the price almost. What have you chosen that is different to cause that to happen, much more expensive motherboard?

cant remember, but it's the one of the asus strix ones priced just below the hero/sabertooth in both cases iirc

 

[adolf hamster]

So for all those talking about the ram- what should i be getting and why should i be getting it?