Yet another gender-swapped remake incoming - Cliffhanger!

Soldato
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Lara Croft was never a strong female lead, she was simply eye candy hence the tight shorts and big cans! As Kelt points out below, if he's going to spend hours looking at a butt, he wants it to be a female butt. This was the same case. She's not a dog ugly, or even average looking 'every woman', you only have to look at those that have portrayed her in the films or at media events. It's that sexualisation of her character that was the (initial) appeal

They may have been part of the appeal but the character was a strong woman who knew how to handle herself, knew how to climb and vault, knew how to handle multiple different weapon types...it's a strong lead character regardless of sex.
 
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Wasn't that the Million Dollar Girl film? Never actually watched it though I've heard it's rather good.

Thats a great example. It wasn't a "gender swap" film but instead a stand-alone film which didn't rely on any previous male-lead films for its success and it shows that there genuinely is the talent and money out there to make really great female lead films which don't have to be pale imitation gender swapped reboots if only Hollywood looked for them.
 
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They may have been part of the appeal but the character was a strong woman who knew how to handle herself, knew how to climb and vault, knew how to handle multiple different weapon types...it's a strong lead character regardless of sex.

That's certainly what she developed in to and the sexualisation was downtoned in later renditions however at the start it was the simple case of sex sells. She was a 3d sexy female character which at the time was pretty ground-breaking!

Why do you think the nude Lara cheat rumour persisted so long?
 
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Who cares? Don't watch it if it gets your balls tied in knots. If they don't make money they won't make them, if they do they will. Some of you guys are really bent out off shape by this stuff.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA........................oh you're serious :D

Recent history has shown that despite the many box office "flops", they'll still making them regardless.
 
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She was a 3d sexy female character which at the time was pretty ground-breaking!
I think the femme nikita was the Daddy/archetype here , often imitated never bettered, brilliant director, subsequently gender switched / remade ... hitman ..... ?
(just looked - had not realised she was Besson's wife)

Cliffhanger was good, before the days of unrealistic CGI, subsequently plagiarized by Tom Cruise MI*


I thought the thread was going to be about Hit and Miss , original concept, well played, good music
 
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA........................oh you're serious :D

Recent history has shown that despite the many box office "flops", they'll still making them regardless.

Then it's their money to lose. Who cares? What difference does it make to you or anyone else. Does it threaten some men's masculinity? I do wonder why so many guys get so bent out of shape about this stuff.
 
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It annoys me because the main audience of men who built a lot of the franchises get to see them die in the hands of greedy hollywood money men. They are simply devoid of good creative material made by women so hilariously decide to hijack a lot of the guys favourite films only to ruin them.


Thats the two things that really kill a movie for me gender swapping in the name of feminism and recasting the original person when clearly they should be retired. Either way we still have the originals for me i find it hard to relate to remakes with strangers so unless you work them into the plot at the start i am out.


But it sure will be hilarious to see these cringe fests waste money. It only proves that guys make better movies and in my view better actors. To prove me wrong they need to bring out some of these gender swapped films with gender swapped people doing the scripts, And directing. And the same should go for the race swapping trend as well. Lets see Black Panther with an all african american cast crew director and writer. You will never see this though because the mode of operation of these people is to take over popular culture instead of creating thier own material. :)
 
Caporegime
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But it sure will be hilarious to see these cringe fests waste money. It only proves that guys make better movies and in my view better actors. To prove me wrong they need to bring out some of these gender swapped films with gender swapped people doing the scripts, And directing. And the same should go for the race swapping trend as well. Lets see Black Panther with an all african american cast crew director and writer. You will never see this though because the mode of operation of these people is to take over popular culture instead of creating thier own material. :)

You understand that most of the gender swapped remakes are made by... men. Ghostbusters was made by Paul Feig, who was crap, he wrote and directed it and it was dreadful.

LIkewise Black Panther was written by two black men, directed by one of those black writers, and had a black dominated cast... so we'll never see.... the thing that happened with the very example you used to try prove the opposite? Did you assume it was written and directed by white men because you thought it was good so couldn't have been written and directed by black men?

As for some of the other crap in this thread, gamers are mostly males, and so you want male characters because you relate to them better. This was also linked with the failure of games with lead female characters.

Now aside from the games with female lead characters that I can think of, like Tomb Raider, Horizon Zero Dawn... these are popular successful games. Which games are failing exactly? As with Mr "they won't make Black Panther using black people", do you have any actual facts to base this on?

More over the key thing you missed was stating that more gamers are men (citation) and stating that we want to relate to the characters more (again citation from gamers, not just you), yet that surely means there should be games with female characters so women can play those games if they are drawn to them more. But somehow you believe all games should have male lead characters because mostly only men game?

Aside from the fact that you provided no where near any hint of any evidence, most things point to a roughly 60/40 split for male/female gaming. Thus if some games (and not that many) have female leads, considering 40% of gamers are women, how is that a problem? Again you seem to believe men can/should only play male lead characters, then by your own logic then 40% of games should have female lead characters.

Either way as said I can't think of any games that flopped massively due to having a female lead character at all and a huge number of games offer the free choice of either and I'll choose either depending on my mood. I don't relate all that much to a male Shepard over a Female Shepard, because I didn't go through that war he went through, or grow up on a colony in a different system, nor have I fought AIs in space, or shocking travel around outer space in general. Almost every character I play in a game is someone with a physical strength I won't ever possess, with the ability to carry hundreds of flasks in one pocket, with the ability to do magic, maybe freeze time or shoot a fireball oh, and there are alien invaders, or zombies or..... they are made up characters that are mostly living a fantasy, if they are male or female is pretty much irrelevant, I'm not them, I'm just playing a character that can do amazing things I can't.
 
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Soldato
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Then it's their money to lose. Who cares? What difference does it make to you or anyone else. Does it threaten some men's masculinity? I do wonder why so many guys get so bent out of shape about this stuff.

Not even in the slightest. I can't see why would you think that is a genuine reason, unless you believe a persons masculinity is somehow related to what movies they watch, which is an incredibly toxic belief in what masculinity is?

When you say "who cares" that, to me, shows you seem to lack empathy and fail to understand that people (male and female) attach an emotional bond to characters or films that they like, so arbitrarily changing the basics of what the character/film is can break that emotional bond they've created, which can be a painful process. That is why people "care" about these gender-swapped films, because not only does it tell people "there must be something wrong with that character/film you formed an emotional bond with as we're going to change it" but also that the sole reason Hollywood is doing this (again to a character or film you have formed an emotional bond with) is purely for a minimal at best financial gain, if any at all looking a box office for these type of films, which just isn't a good enough reason to justify breaking that emotional bond for most people.

Of course thats just my opinion on the subject and is not stated as fact for everyone, just myself but whether you agree or not with the reaction being shown, being empathetic means you at least understand "why" the reaction happens at the very least, which is why your comment of "who cares" seemed to show a lacking that basic understanding of "why", which this post may hopefully change, and also show why it has nothing to do with masculinity at all.
 
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When it flops, and it will flop, it'll just be another excuse for the usual suspects of the perpetually offended brigade to jump into their safe spaces and echo chambers and running crying to social media about how men are to blame.
 
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I’ll watch a film based on its merits. Ghostbusters remake didn’t interest me in the slightest so I haven’t watched it and that had nothing to do with the female cast, though I am not a fan of Melissa McCarthy, I just don’t want to watch it as I fondly remember the original from my younger days.

I will watch that new Ocean’s film when it pops up on Netflix or Amazon Prime Video and as for Cliffhanger remake, depends who’s cast in the lead.
 
Caporegime
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When you say "who cares" that, to me, shows you seem to lack empathy and fail to understand that people (male and female) attach an emotional bond to characters or films that they like, so arbitrarily changing the basics of what the character/film is can break that emotional bond they've created, which can be a painful process.

You've got a big emotional bond with Stallone in Cliffhanger have you? A man who's character name I can't even remember.
 
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You've got a big emotional bond with Stallone in Cliffhanger have you? A man who's character name I can't even remember.

No, although I do with other films/characters. Although at no point have I suggested that I might have so I'm confused over the need for your question based on the part of my post you quoted (see spoiler).

I don't want to derail this thread into a "me vs you" back and forth which would just bore people, but I'd really appreciate it if you could explain what part of my posts explicitly made you want to ask me if I had a "big emotional bond with Stallone in Cliffhanger" based on what I'd written, as I haven't used "Stallone" or mentioned his character in any post and only mentioned "Cliffhanger" once in the OP, nor have I said that I even like the film or character anywhere, leading to my confusion with your post.

I think it'd be great for you to reply with that info is it'd really help me really understand "why" you think how you do about my posts and would lead to more clarity in them for the future.
 
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